I recently bought a tractor off a guy who I see has made posts about this tractor. It doesn't really move when in any gear but in snail 1 it will roll maybe 1/4mph. I am fairly certain this is an issue with the forward/reverse clutch in the transmission. I believe the solenoids and everything are pulling in as the coils get magnetic when direction is selected. I verified the PTO clutch also engages to see if there is maybe a pressure issue but that still doesn't rule it out as there is much less going on in the PTO gearing. My question is am I correct in thinking that the transmission not going in both directions would indicate that it is likely not the direction clutch as it would likely only fail in one direction and this performs about the same in both. Don't have a pressure tester set up yet but maybe tomorrow I can get it running and find a gauge that will fit it. I see there are screens in the actual solenoid valve that I suppose could be plugged not letting a full pressure get to the clutches or my other thought is maybe a seal has blown in the clutch blowing by pressure but that I wouldn't think would affect both directions. I would rather not waste a bunch of time and money finding the clutch pack and splitting the tractor if this is just a hydraulic issue
Challenger MT265B POWER SHUTTLE BOT MOVING
Harry in Ky
Veteran Member
As I see it, your tractor has a dry disc engine clutch. Your description of events leads me to believe therein lies your problem. Do you have any free play in the clutch pedal? If not, start right there. Lengthen the rod from the clutch pedal down to the lever it connects to and see what changes. Once you have some free play in the pedal and it still won't pull it's most likely a worn out clutch. Yes, a hydraulic issue is always possible, but the clutch is more likely the problem.
I had thought about that laying in bed last night. The guy I bought it from said his grandpa had put a new clutch in it not that long ago so it should be good and that there was plenty of adjustment yet in one of his posts he said it was at the end of its adjustments. I will have to look at it today. I originally before I bought it from the guy thought it would just be a clutch
LouNY
Super Star Member
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- Location
- Greenwich, NY
- Tractor
- Branson 8050, IH 574, Oliver 1550 Diesel Utility (traded in on Branson) NH 8160. Kioti CK2620SECH
I've never seen a power shuttle that didn't have a pair of wet clutch packs, that said it could also have a dry clutch. Without a service manual or at least a parts breakdown for the tractor it's just guessing at this stage.
Well I don't have to do any more guessing. I split the tractor today and found out exactly what went wrong. One side of the clutch disc blew up
Well here we are a few weeks later. The tractor is split, clutch replaced and it is almost slid back together. I am trying to line everything up to get it bolted up but we are a little stuck getting everything lined up. Attached are some of the update pictures of what everything looked like or now looks like. Currently also turned my front axle into a million pieces as the thing was run without oil for a very long while.
Attachments
Harry in Ky
Veteran Member
I can see how you're having problems getting things "lined up". Everyone has their own ways of doing things, and we're often limited by what we have to work with. That said, what I see in your photo looks like multiple nightmares. Can't tell from the camera angle but what is the floor jack holding up, and what is the chain come along doing? What is supporting the front framework? Personally I would be looking for a cherry picker. You can beg, borrow, steal, or rent one. Using three or four light duty chains attached to various points converging to a single point where one chain will support the whole engine/frame assembly level and balanced. From that point you can roll the whole thing together and have it mated up in twenty minutes with no risk of damage. I've done it that way many many times with no outside help.
Currently my set up is 2 chain pullers rigged to a beam on the front and back for tilt control and then the floor jack is offset from the rear pick point to control the roll. I wish it wasnt like this, I would have prefered to not have to rip apart the front axle but it was pretty destroyed by the previous owner and I would really like to get this in a timely manor so I didnt wait for the clutch to show up before taking the axle off. I do have an engine hoist but it is kinda buried in my garage at the moment so I figured picking it at two points with the jack to roll it back and fourth would suffice.
Harry in Ky
Veteran Member
Maybe it will if you fight with long enough. We all make choices. Some work out better than others.
If I can get my engine hoist out I will try that. I only had time to mess with it for maybe 30 minutes last night before family came over for dinner so I had to throw in the towel. I plan on spending some more time out there today. I think I am getting hung up on one of the splines, I was turning the engine over by hand but the splined shafts in the transmission seem to spin too freely. I may try putting it in gear to prrevent it spinning so easy, without hydraulics it wont actually go into gear with the direction clutch.
Harry in Ky
Veteran Member
Another trick that can help. You still have the starter installed (as shown in photos) so you can temporarily hook up battery cables, then using a jumper wire or remote start button bump the starter briefly multiple times while pushing things together. That seems to work well for me. The jolt can help in getting splines to self align and things slip together easier then just turning the motor by hand.
I had put the starter back in to do a compression test. But I did consider bumping it over with the starter to get it back, I don't have a great battery so I would have to rob peter to pay Paul. Or rather return peters battery that I stole for Paul. If I get a good battery back for it and find my remote start trigger that would be a great solution
Harry in Ky
Veteran Member
You don't really need a good battery. You just want to jolt the engine slightly. No need for it actually turn over. A two second bump repeated until splines mate up is all that's required.
well I had to take care of a few things yyesterday all at the same time but after about an hour of running around the garage, I got the tractor back together. I had it perfectly lined up already I just needed a better method of pulling the tractor halves together. found some longer bolts and worked it back and forth while bumping the starter and it went right together no issues. still have yet to hook up anything else so there is still a lot of work to do but I think it should only take me a couple more hours not including putting the front axle back together
Harry in Ky
Veteran Member
Again, we all make choices and are often limited to the resources on hand. The "longer bolts" technique (while sometimes effective) has been known to produce more problems than solutions. I don't recommend it in most circumstances. I use a cable come along to pull the halves together. It can apply enough effort to close the gap but if done properly it's not enough to do any damage. Tightening bolts can apply a lot of pressure on mismatched internal parts causing issues you don't realize until you're (supposedly) all done and ready to start it up.
LouNY
Super Star Member
- Joined
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- 14,427
- Location
- Greenwich, NY
- Tractor
- Branson 8050, IH 574, Oliver 1550 Diesel Utility (traded in on Branson) NH 8160. Kioti CK2620SECH
I have always used longer bolts with the heads cut off as alignment pins/rods, a few times I've had to remove them by cutting short pieces off while working sections together.
I guess my description was quite poor, I put longer bolts in that bottomed out in the threaded holes, and I used a short pry bar in between the head of the bolt and engine flange to prevent binding from cramming the bolts tight. This is the working back and forth I poorly mentioned until I got to the point where the normal bolts got enough engagement and I used a 6in 3/8 drive ratchet at that point so I could feel any resistance.
Yea this is basically how it worked out for me, they still had the heads on them but I was able to use them to nail the alignment. I have made guide rods for rebuilding one of my milling machines, as I had to pull a 200 pound gearbox out of a hole in its housing and there is not a way to just pick it with a crane so sliding it out got it to the point you could throw a sling on it... or man-handle it onto the workbench ha. I am not working on the tractor where all of my tools are so I wasnt able to machine proper alignment pins I would have preferred that but I looked through some of my boxes of new hardware I hadnt yet put away and found the longer bolts
Harry in Ky
Veteran Member
You're right, that's a better explanation. As Lou stated headless bolts used as guide dowels can be very helpful. Sometimes it's really the only way to make things work. I have a couple boxes of them in various sizes and lengths, in standard, SAE, and metric. No matter how many I collect it never seems to be enough.
just incase anyone was curios I took the tractor for its maiden voyage around the yard today. finally got the last of the parts for the front axle complete rebuild as it had all but blown up. all new bearings for every part and all new seals. I might need to do some work on the injection pump but I have yet to determine if that is my hard starting/slight loss in power.
