have_blue
Veteran Member
I got a 20' 5/16 grade 70 from Harbor Freight for (IIRC) $15.00. It has 3/8 grab hooks on both ends. It's strong way beyond anything my 35HP tractor can do.
Chains for Lifting Objests With FEL
- Thread starter BoneheadNW
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have_blue
Veteran Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( </font><font color="blueclass=small">( Not all chains are created equal. )</font>
So very true. Why would you think the chain at Harbor Fright is so cheap? There is one ingredient missing in their chain; that is quality control. )</font>
Careful there!
Many of the good ole USA hardware chain stores and tool "manufacturers" are outsourcing to China. You may THINK you are getting an American made chain, saw blade, etc, but sometimes it's VERY hard to tell. There are still strict laws pertaining to Japan, but the laws pertaining to other countries are much fuzzier. I would be in favor of laws which VERY CLEARLY mark the country of origin for all products, right beside the "American as apple pie" brand name.
BTW, Harbor Freight chains are as good as any. Because they are for sale in California, they are subjected to stringent testing by the highway department there. That means not only physical testing, but a proper paper trail.
So very true. Why would you think the chain at Harbor Fright is so cheap? There is one ingredient missing in their chain; that is quality control. )</font>
Careful there!
Many of the good ole USA hardware chain stores and tool "manufacturers" are outsourcing to China. You may THINK you are getting an American made chain, saw blade, etc, but sometimes it's VERY hard to tell. There are still strict laws pertaining to Japan, but the laws pertaining to other countries are much fuzzier. I would be in favor of laws which VERY CLEARLY mark the country of origin for all products, right beside the "American as apple pie" brand name.
BTW, Harbor Freight chains are as good as any. Because they are for sale in California, they are subjected to stringent testing by the highway department there. That means not only physical testing, but a proper paper trail.
Dargo
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( BTW, Harbor Freight chains are as good as any. Because they are for sale in California, they are subjected to stringent testing by the highway department there. That means not only physical testing, but a proper paper trail. )</font>
I'll respectfully disagree with you here. I try to stay fairly politically correct and not hurt feelings here, but Harbor Fright buys the absolute cheapest quality product that is available. I do still buy some stuff there. I just picked up a half gallon of Slime there yesterday. Quality control is my only issue with chain made in China. You may get a great chain, you may get one that will kill because it is of subpar quality. It is up to you to judge whether you are willing to risk injury or equipment damage to save a buck on their chain. If you use it in a manner in which a failure will not harm you, anyone around you, or your equipment, then I feel you made a wise choice in saving money over the more expensive US made product. I have indeed broken HF chain; grade 70. I should not have been able to break that with the equipment I was using.
I will not waiver one bit from the statement that HF cheap stuff is okay for disposable use, or chain for use where human safety and the safety of equipment is not at risk. For example, dragging a log out of the woods; yes. Lifting anything off the ground that I don't want to drop, or that may injure me, others, or damage my equipment; no way. Everyone earns their own money and has the absolute right to spend it the way they feel appropriate. You certainly are not doing anything wrong by any means if you buy cheap and questionable quality chain from HF. However, under no circumstances, would I ever recommend to anyone to cut corners and buy inferior quality chain where their life or their equipment may be at risk. Cheap stuff has it's place, where safety is concerned; I draw the line there. Sorry, maybe because I'm a father, I will never opt to save a buck when it puts a question mark on safety. Even though I disagree with you, I would gladly loan you my US made chain, if I could, if you would be using the chain in a manner that it's failure could harm you or your equipment.
As I said, you earned your money so you positively have every right to spend it as you deem appropriate. I don't expect my personal experience or beliefs to effect your spending habits. That said, from those personal experiences, HF products will never be used by me, nor will I even work around them, when a safety issue is at hand or even the risk of destroying my equipment due to HF product failure is possible.
I'll respectfully disagree with you here. I try to stay fairly politically correct and not hurt feelings here, but Harbor Fright buys the absolute cheapest quality product that is available. I do still buy some stuff there. I just picked up a half gallon of Slime there yesterday. Quality control is my only issue with chain made in China. You may get a great chain, you may get one that will kill because it is of subpar quality. It is up to you to judge whether you are willing to risk injury or equipment damage to save a buck on their chain. If you use it in a manner in which a failure will not harm you, anyone around you, or your equipment, then I feel you made a wise choice in saving money over the more expensive US made product. I have indeed broken HF chain; grade 70. I should not have been able to break that with the equipment I was using.
I will not waiver one bit from the statement that HF cheap stuff is okay for disposable use, or chain for use where human safety and the safety of equipment is not at risk. For example, dragging a log out of the woods; yes. Lifting anything off the ground that I don't want to drop, or that may injure me, others, or damage my equipment; no way. Everyone earns their own money and has the absolute right to spend it the way they feel appropriate. You certainly are not doing anything wrong by any means if you buy cheap and questionable quality chain from HF. However, under no circumstances, would I ever recommend to anyone to cut corners and buy inferior quality chain where their life or their equipment may be at risk. Cheap stuff has it's place, where safety is concerned; I draw the line there. Sorry, maybe because I'm a father, I will never opt to save a buck when it puts a question mark on safety. Even though I disagree with you, I would gladly loan you my US made chain, if I could, if you would be using the chain in a manner that it's failure could harm you or your equipment.
As I said, you earned your money so you positively have every right to spend it as you deem appropriate. I don't expect my personal experience or beliefs to effect your spending habits. That said, from those personal experiences, HF products will never be used by me, nor will I even work around them, when a safety issue is at hand or even the risk of destroying my equipment due to HF product failure is possible.
have_blue
Veteran Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( </font><font color="blueclass=small">( BTW, Harbor Freight chains are as good as any. Because they are for sale in California, they are subjected to stringent testing by the highway department there. That means not only physical testing, but a proper paper trail. )</font>
I'll respectfully disagree with you here.
<Well... as long as it's respectful> /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I try to stay fairly politically correct
<Not me. Junk is junk. I have a feel for metal. I can look at my chain and tell it's just fine, thank you. Besides, I had superman test it for me. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif >
Cheap stuff has it's place, where safety is concerned; I draw the line there.
<I'm right with you on that. That's why I will not take a step down in quality and safety and buy anything less than the best: HF Grade 70 5/16 chain. The best of the best! It's so strong and safe, I would hang my mother-in-law over an alligator pit with it. >
)</font>
Have a safe and happy Mother's Day y'all. Dance with the wonderful gal who brought you into this world. You owe it to her!
I'll respectfully disagree with you here.
<Well... as long as it's respectful> /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I try to stay fairly politically correct
<Not me. Junk is junk. I have a feel for metal. I can look at my chain and tell it's just fine, thank you. Besides, I had superman test it for me. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif >
Cheap stuff has it's place, where safety is concerned; I draw the line there.
<I'm right with you on that. That's why I will not take a step down in quality and safety and buy anything less than the best: HF Grade 70 5/16 chain. The best of the best! It's so strong and safe, I would hang my mother-in-law over an alligator pit with it. >
)</font>
Have a safe and happy Mother's Day y'all. Dance with the wonderful gal who brought you into this world. You owe it to her!
Jimbrown
Veteran Member
<font color="blue"> </font> Have a safe and happy Mother's Day y'all. Dance with the wonderful gal who brought you into this world. You owe it to her!
<font color="black"> </font>
AKKKKK that would be grossooooo she has been dead for 30 years.
<font color="black"> </font>
AKKKKK that would be grossooooo she has been dead for 30 years.
PineRidge
Super Member
Dargo I have to wonder why you seem to be so against items made over the pond that you claim lack quality control yet you purchased a tractor that was made where?
I own a New Holland and guess where their engines come from?
I wouldn't think that just because you had a chain break that they should all be lumped into the same category of inferior-junk.
Lots and lots of folks purchase from Harbor Freight. Sure I may have broken a screwdriver or two purchased from the folks in the past but I have also worn out a few Makita, Milwaukee, and Craftsman tools also and I don't consider them junk either.
You are certainly entitled to your own opinion and I respect that, but I really don't think the quality control at Harbor Freight is as bad as you make it out to be.
I own a New Holland and guess where their engines come from?
I wouldn't think that just because you had a chain break that they should all be lumped into the same category of inferior-junk.
Lots and lots of folks purchase from Harbor Freight. Sure I may have broken a screwdriver or two purchased from the folks in the past but I have also worn out a few Makita, Milwaukee, and Craftsman tools also and I don't consider them junk either.
You are certainly entitled to your own opinion and I respect that, but I really don't think the quality control at Harbor Freight is as bad as you make it out to be.
have_blue
Veteran Member
Some of HF's stuff is admittedly junk. If I judge it won't last or function properly, I am perfectly free to leave it in the store. Sometimes it makes more sense to buy a HF tool for $100 that lasts for 15 years than to buy a (possibly) American made tool for $400 that will last for 30 years.
Botton line, I have used and examined my 5/16 Grade 70 chain, and the quality is just fine. This chain will not fail unless abused, and I'm not even equipped to abuse it.
Botton line, I have used and examined my 5/16 Grade 70 chain, and the quality is just fine. This chain will not fail unless abused, and I'm not even equipped to abuse it.
Dargo
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No, it's not over the pond that concerns me. And, I'm not even a union person. (My dad is UMWA, so we won't even go into that battle /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif) It is China in particular. I've been injured, and have come close to being killed because of inferior quality products from HF. No joke, no kidding, no exaggerating. That is besides the fact that most every tool I've purchased from HF has failed upon the first use.
That is why I am so staunch in my dislike of HF's products when they have the potential to harm the user or the user's equipment. I do not claim to know my chain well. I have no desire to learn. However, I have learned that the crap from HF has failed me time and time again. The metal used in Pittsburgh tools is of very poor quality and does fail upon any hard use. The one chain I bought there proved to be of the same poor quality and failed, even though it was the gold colored grade 70 chain.
I guess you can't call me the HF ****, because I will still go in there to buy disposable tools and other products like Slime. Heck, I even have a tool kit in my Rhino and RTV that is made with HF tools. I'll admit that I'm a bit stubborn and hard headed (see post about my straps failing when towing my tractor - never thought that would happen either), but when I know something to be of poor quality (i.e. made in China - not just imported, but made in China) I feel obligated to warn against them when using them in a manner that could cause bodily harm when they fail. That's all. On imported items in general, it is unfortunate that the US cannot compete with the quality of a lot of items. No need to go into what. That varies considerably. Right now, I'm not impressed with anything ChiCom that I've come across. But, that would lead into politics as an explanation, and we can't go there. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
As others have said, be sure to wish all the mother's a happy mother's day!! Do something special for them. I even made sure to not only include mom, but mother in law, step mother, and, of course, my wife! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
That is why I am so staunch in my dislike of HF's products when they have the potential to harm the user or the user's equipment. I do not claim to know my chain well. I have no desire to learn. However, I have learned that the crap from HF has failed me time and time again. The metal used in Pittsburgh tools is of very poor quality and does fail upon any hard use. The one chain I bought there proved to be of the same poor quality and failed, even though it was the gold colored grade 70 chain.
I guess you can't call me the HF ****, because I will still go in there to buy disposable tools and other products like Slime. Heck, I even have a tool kit in my Rhino and RTV that is made with HF tools. I'll admit that I'm a bit stubborn and hard headed (see post about my straps failing when towing my tractor - never thought that would happen either), but when I know something to be of poor quality (i.e. made in China - not just imported, but made in China) I feel obligated to warn against them when using them in a manner that could cause bodily harm when they fail. That's all. On imported items in general, it is unfortunate that the US cannot compete with the quality of a lot of items. No need to go into what. That varies considerably. Right now, I'm not impressed with anything ChiCom that I've come across. But, that would lead into politics as an explanation, and we can't go there. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
As others have said, be sure to wish all the mother's a happy mother's day!! Do something special for them. I even made sure to not only include mom, but mother in law, step mother, and, of course, my wife! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Dargo
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( You are certainly entitled to your own opinion and I respect that, but I really don't think the quality control at Harbor Freight is as bad as you make it out to be. )</font>
I know, but try sitting on the floor (where you can see the pile of broken tools you purchased from HF) and have a spring compressor break in your lap with a spring compressed. If it doesn't kill you, it will likely taint your view of HF for life as well.
I know, but try sitting on the floor (where you can see the pile of broken tools you purchased from HF) and have a spring compressor break in your lap with a spring compressed. If it doesn't kill you, it will likely taint your view of HF for life as well.
have_blue
Veteran Member
I will warn you again to be careful. The way things are outsourced today, your favorite tools and equipment may have parts or be entirely made in China. There's nothing wrong with that. If they are made in China to exacting American or Japanese quality standards, they are just as good as any.
Don't misread me. I wish the USA could compete better in the world market, but insurance and other unfortunate things have driven manufacturing from our shores.
Don't misread me. I wish the USA could compete better in the world market, but insurance and other unfortunate things have driven manufacturing from our shores.
Dargo
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Oh, now I see; you guys with the pretty blue tractors are picking on me. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif If I can't get my orange pumpkin fixed right and buy blue again next time, can I be in the club? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Just joking, obviously. Well, maybe... Anyway, it's nice to be able to debate without tempers flaring etc. Right now my temper is flaring against a company that makes orange tractors. So, since blue is my favorite color, you'd better agree with me or I might just come borrow your pretty blue tractor in the middle of the night! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Just joking, obviously. Well, maybe... Anyway, it's nice to be able to debate without tempers flaring etc. Right now my temper is flaring against a company that makes orange tractors. So, since blue is my favorite color, you'd better agree with me or I might just come borrow your pretty blue tractor in the middle of the night! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
PineRidge
Super Member
Dargo that's one of the main reasons that I really like TBN.
We all have our own likes and dislikes, we share ideas and information.
And we are all free to use those ideas or dispose of them as we see fit.
And we can agree to disagree on threads and still be friends.
I do value your input. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
We all have our own likes and dislikes, we share ideas and information.
And we are all free to use those ideas or dispose of them as we see fit.
And we can agree to disagree on threads and still be friends.
I do value your input. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
OK, I have a question for all. I have not bought my chains yet, been a TSC convert for a year or so now on bolts and just about anything that I can get elsewhere, but always give them a shot.
Should I buy my chains there, dont need something to pull down a barn, but something to move my mower around, strap something in the bucket, stuff like that. I figure 5/16 hardened, with appropriate hooks will do, 15' or so.
Should I buy my chains there, dont need something to pull down a barn, but something to move my mower around, strap something in the bucket, stuff like that. I figure 5/16 hardened, with appropriate hooks will do, 15' or so.
Well here's my two cents...
I haven't kept track of names here but I'm going to respond to a couple comments and then tell two stories of what happened to me.
First, someone said Harbor Freight buys the cheapest products available. I disagree, apparently the person saying this has never shopped at a Homier show. Their Chinese products make Harbor Freight products look like they're made by John Deere or New Holland. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Someone commented that they would never buy a jack or any product from Harbor Freight which would be unsafe if it failed. At one time, I didn't agree with this but, I was a fool. Now I strongly agree!
About four months ago, I bought a "Farm Jack" from Harbor Freight. It was rated at 600lbs. Since I never intended to lift anything near that heavy with it, I thought it would be ok. Wrong!
I needed to tip my front end loader forward. I could almost do it myself. I could lift the one of the arms off the ground slightly but needed another strong person to lift the other one a the same time. I thought ok, I'll use the HF farm jack. So I started jacking it up and it lifted it effortlessly. As I started to jack it down, it hung up. It wouldn't jack down correctly. Suddenly, the jack just let go and the FEL tipped backwards towards me and crashed to the ground. It missed my foot by inches. Had that steel FEL arm dropped three feet and landed on my foot it would have crushed it.
Here's what I found. In the HF Jack, there are two pins. One of the light weight none hardened pins bent and allowed the jack to fall. I took the jack back to the Harbor Freight store and explained that I believed the jack had improperly heat treated components. The store clerk clearly didn't have a clue what I was talking about but refunded my money.
Two lessons learned.
1) Don't trust your life and health to Chinese quality control.
2) Buy a good pair of steel toed shoes when working with your tractor.
Also, when lifting anything using the FEL. Be careful. I recently attempted to lift a crate with a nylon strap. I had the strap attached to both sides of the FEL (mistake #1). One end of the strap was a little tighter than the other, I though the strap would slip and equalize the lifting force (mistake #2).
As I lifted, the 7000lb tractor suddenly (in half a second) flipped up onto two wheels and nearly flipped over. I was sitting still at the time without the seatbelt fastened. I could have easily been pitched out of the drivers seat and under the ROPS had it gone all the way over.
I learned that when the FEL is lifted, the center of gravity of the tractor is much higher than you would think, any side load can flip the tractor VERY EASILY.
Good Luck,
I enjoyed this thread a lot.
Jerry /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I haven't kept track of names here but I'm going to respond to a couple comments and then tell two stories of what happened to me.
First, someone said Harbor Freight buys the cheapest products available. I disagree, apparently the person saying this has never shopped at a Homier show. Their Chinese products make Harbor Freight products look like they're made by John Deere or New Holland. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Someone commented that they would never buy a jack or any product from Harbor Freight which would be unsafe if it failed. At one time, I didn't agree with this but, I was a fool. Now I strongly agree!
About four months ago, I bought a "Farm Jack" from Harbor Freight. It was rated at 600lbs. Since I never intended to lift anything near that heavy with it, I thought it would be ok. Wrong!
I needed to tip my front end loader forward. I could almost do it myself. I could lift the one of the arms off the ground slightly but needed another strong person to lift the other one a the same time. I thought ok, I'll use the HF farm jack. So I started jacking it up and it lifted it effortlessly. As I started to jack it down, it hung up. It wouldn't jack down correctly. Suddenly, the jack just let go and the FEL tipped backwards towards me and crashed to the ground. It missed my foot by inches. Had that steel FEL arm dropped three feet and landed on my foot it would have crushed it.
Here's what I found. In the HF Jack, there are two pins. One of the light weight none hardened pins bent and allowed the jack to fall. I took the jack back to the Harbor Freight store and explained that I believed the jack had improperly heat treated components. The store clerk clearly didn't have a clue what I was talking about but refunded my money.
Two lessons learned.
1) Don't trust your life and health to Chinese quality control.
2) Buy a good pair of steel toed shoes when working with your tractor.
Also, when lifting anything using the FEL. Be careful. I recently attempted to lift a crate with a nylon strap. I had the strap attached to both sides of the FEL (mistake #1). One end of the strap was a little tighter than the other, I though the strap would slip and equalize the lifting force (mistake #2).
As I lifted, the 7000lb tractor suddenly (in half a second) flipped up onto two wheels and nearly flipped over. I was sitting still at the time without the seatbelt fastened. I could have easily been pitched out of the drivers seat and under the ROPS had it gone all the way over.
I learned that when the FEL is lifted, the center of gravity of the tractor is much higher than you would think, any side load can flip the tractor VERY EASILY.
Good Luck,
I enjoyed this thread a lot.
Jerry /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
have_blue
Veteran Member
Good story. Buyer beware!
A I said, you must watch HF. I personally inspect and evaluate everything I buy there, and take personal responsibility for being a cheap skate. You can get away with it if you play it smart. I have been very lucky so far. All my purchases have been very good save for a .99 special or 2.
I restrict my HF purchases mostly to tools that don't do any lifting or holding. Their chains are DOT graded and approved, and 4x more than I can break, so I trust them. (besides, I took a good look at them before buying). Their $10 disk grinders and $24 1/2" 110v hand drills are SUPER values and decent quality. Their 1 HP 16" drill press is too. None of these will fall on you! I have never bought a jack, lift, wench, or anything hydraulic from them. Those items are too hard to examine unless I borrow a friends and thoroughly check it out first. I am acutely aware of proper heat treating. In another life, I was in charge of 2 matallurgy labs among other things, and I know that metal isn't metal.
A I said, you must watch HF. I personally inspect and evaluate everything I buy there, and take personal responsibility for being a cheap skate. You can get away with it if you play it smart. I have been very lucky so far. All my purchases have been very good save for a .99 special or 2.
I restrict my HF purchases mostly to tools that don't do any lifting or holding. Their chains are DOT graded and approved, and 4x more than I can break, so I trust them. (besides, I took a good look at them before buying). Their $10 disk grinders and $24 1/2" 110v hand drills are SUPER values and decent quality. Their 1 HP 16" drill press is too. None of these will fall on you! I have never bought a jack, lift, wench, or anything hydraulic from them. Those items are too hard to examine unless I borrow a friends and thoroughly check it out first. I am acutely aware of proper heat treating. In another life, I was in charge of 2 matallurgy labs among other things, and I know that metal isn't metal.
SkyPup
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After snapping in half a brand new 3/8" Grade 43 chain, which has a working load limit (WLL) of 5400 lbs, with the FEL on our L39 while loading a tree stump, I am using only AMERICAN made Grade 80 1/2" chains with a WLL of 12,000 pounds from now on. But I have to admit, the 200 foot drum of this great chain is very heavy!
http://www.1st-chainsupply.com/chain/gr80_spec.htm
http://www.1st-chainsupply.com/chain/gr80_spec.htm
Dargo
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( None of these will fall on you! I have never bought a jack, lift, wench, or anything hydraulic from them. )</font>
Okay, I'm the guilty party of bashing HF because of my bad experiences with exactly what you mentioned you haven't bought there. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif I'm sorry, but I about fell out of my chair laughing when I read your "none of these will fall on you". I'm still giggling like a kid as I type this. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif I could just picture you like my father telling me "you dummy, use some sense about what you buy there!" /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
You are right, there are some bargains to be had there. You just need to be smart enough to judge what is a bargain and what will potentially kill you. I'd been guilty of not knowing that in the past; that is why I'm the HF ****. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Yes, you'll still find me lurking in the isles there (in disguise) but I won't buy anything there that will injure me or damage my other equipment if it fails.
Okay, I'm the guilty party of bashing HF because of my bad experiences with exactly what you mentioned you haven't bought there. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif I'm sorry, but I about fell out of my chair laughing when I read your "none of these will fall on you". I'm still giggling like a kid as I type this. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif I could just picture you like my father telling me "you dummy, use some sense about what you buy there!" /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
You are right, there are some bargains to be had there. You just need to be smart enough to judge what is a bargain and what will potentially kill you. I'd been guilty of not knowing that in the past; that is why I'm the HF ****. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Yes, you'll still find me lurking in the isles there (in disguise) but I won't buy anything there that will injure me or damage my other equipment if it fails.
