Cell Signal Boosters

[k0ua]

Isnt it true that you can get very low loss with the semi rigid "copper tube" coax because the coaxialness is maintained much better -- near perfect?

Semi rigid and rigid feed lines will have less loss generally, but are much more difficult to work with and connectors are very expensive. For this application it would not be cost effective or convenient. Sure some 7/8 heliax with N connectors would be great, but the cost of the feed line and connectors would be more than the wilson unit itself. ironically I had about 300 of the connectors a few years ago, but sold them all.

These type of feed lines still have loss, just less of it mostly due to their size and larger conductors. We once ran some 1.5 inch hardline on one of our repeater installations, but had to have a local machinist make up a set of connectors for it as the cost to buy them was prohibitive.

When you start playing in the big leagues you will need to really open your wallet wide.

 

[Alien]

We are on the fringe with 2 major towers. Phone companies were not much help so we tried an external antenna and there was little difference.
Changed our phone from a Samsung to a HTC and what a difference.... Now we get signal all through the house and no more running to a window or outside. We now get 4G all the time. If you have friends with different phones see if they can help with signal checks before buying your next one.

 

[Ford850]

For anyone considering one of the Wilson kits, Amazon has the better kit on sale right now. Kit 470103 is normally $549 most places, and they have it at $479 right now. Amazon.com: weBoost Connect 4G Cell Phone Booster Kit: Cell Phones & Accessories

 

[N80]

For anyone considering one of the Wilson kits, Amazon has the better kit on sale right now. Kit 470103 is normally $549 most places, and they have it at $479 right now. Amazon.com: weBoost Connect 4G Cell Phone Booster Kit: Cell Phones & Accessories

I saw that but still ordered from Wilson because they have a no-questions-asked 30 day return policy and I wasn't sure about the return policy. I wish I'd have gone with the Amazon deal now since it works like a charm. See below for details.

 

[N80]

So, I got the kit referenced above. Probably could have done the $399 deal but decided I wanted the extra indoor coverage if I was going to spend the money anyway. Our signal was so poor the different tower locator apps could not even point to a tower. Inside the best I ever got was -108 dB (1 bar 1x). The best we ever got outside was -96 dB (2-3 bars, occasional 3G). So, I got everything hooked up, ran the cable out the window and played with pointing the yagi in a couple of directions. Within a few minutes I got -79 inside (3-4 bars, 3G, sometimes LTE), which is a huge improvement! Everything works great, text, voice, internet, can even use iPad on the phone's WiFi hotspot. Currently the yagi is just screwed to one of the porch posts. I'm pretty sure if I get the yagi up higher and play with the aiming we'll even get better results.

On the amp all of the bars are green except for the last one, probably because inside and outside antennas are still too close. I'm not sure I'll be able to do any better since the cabin is fairly small so it is hard to get a lot of separation and I'm not planning on putting up a huge mast.

However, that does bring up a small issue. I'm going to need more coax cable to get the kind of separation and have the cable routed out of the way. Anything in particular I need to know about purchasing additional cable. I have no experience with coax.

 

[Ford850]

N80, did your kit come with 2 cables 30' each? Can't you position the amp mid way, between the 2 cables, and achieve enough separation between antennas? The Wilson site lists 50' RG6 cables too ( https://www.wilsonamplifiers.com/rg-6-f-male-f-male-50ft-white-cable-950650/). The extra cable length might negate any advantage you gain by further separating the antennas though.

 

[k0ua]

The general rules for coax is that the larger the diameter the coax the less loss per foot for a given frequency. As the frequency goes up the loss per foot increases. Also the power handling ability also increases with the increase in size of the coax, and power handling ability also increases with the lowering of the frequency of the RF going thru it.

Also as the size of the coax increases, the price for the coax and possibly the price for the connectors increases, and the difficulty of working with it also increases. Also well know brands like Belden, and Andrews are usually more expensive than some of the imported brands.

 

[N80]

N80, did your kit come with 2 cables 30' each? Can't you position the amp mid way, between the 2 cables, and achieve enough separation between antennas? The Wilson site lists 50' RG6 cables too ( https://www.wilsonamplifiers.com/rg-6-f-male-f-male-50ft-white-cable-950650/). The extra cable length might negate any advantage you gain by further separating the antennas though.

It did come with two cables but I don't think they total 60'. Stretched out I can get the indoor antenna at the front inside wall of the cabin and the outside antenna out on the back porch with the amp in between. But this is with the cable going along the wall, then behind the couch etc and I'm getting maybe a total of 35-40 feet of separation. I will need extra length so that the cable isn't just running straight out the window. In other words, it will need to run along the wall, up a porch post and up a short pole. I might be able to get the full 50' direct separation but since the cable has to routed around stuff to be out of the way, I'm guessing I'll need close to 100' total. Will have to experiment with cable length vs antenna separation. Not sure the lights on the amp will tell me anything about signal loss due to cable length. Might have to watch the cell phone field test data for that.

There may also be some better routing and mounting options too. I'll spend some time planning that out this weekend. I'll try to get the shortest cable route with max separation.

RG6 coax is fairly cheap but comes in a number of basic flavors at the big box stores. Not sure if I need to spend more on 'quad' vs 'double' shielded. The cheapest stuff does not have connectors. I'm assuming a special tool is required to add connectors? Some of it also says indoor only. A fair length of mine will be outdoors so I'll use the provided cable for that.

Final question, which distance should I keep the shortest: Outside yagi antenna to amp or amp to inside antenna........or does that even matter?

 

[k0ua]

Final question, which distance should I keep the shortest: Outside yagi antenna to amp or amp to inside antenna........or does that even matter?

In my opinion if you have a choice, I would minimize the yagi to amp length. Once signal is lost in coax it is lost. The signal from the tower to the yagi is the weakest. This is why in amateur radio practice you will often see mast mounted pre-amps and even power amps put near the antennas up on the tower to minimize the losses. Once you hit the amp, you can make power (both TX and RX) to send down a longer length of coax. But if the signal is lost getting to the amp it is gone forever.

 

[Ford850]

I would go with the best shielding just in case. Not much difference in price that I can see. The RG rating is nothing more than an old term for the core size, and much of the quality difference is in the shielding and connectors. But like you said, it's fairly cheap. I saw this on amazon, 2 50' quad shielded for $18.99. Amazon.com: Cable Matters 3-Pack, CL2 In-Wall Rated (CM) Quad Shielded RG6 Coaxial Patch Cable in Black 3 Feet: Electronics
I'm no expert though. I've been researching all this while reading threads like this, looking for the right solution for me too. I see now that the antennas should be 50' apart, straight line. I understand how 2 30' cables would make that nearly impossible for most installations. For less than $20, you can get plenty of cable to separate the antennas. I think it would be worth it to try since you've come this far.

 

[N80]

In my opinion if you have a choice, I would minimize the yagi to amp length. Once signal is lost in coax it is lost. The signal from the tower to the yagi is the weakest. This is why in amateur radio practice you will often see mast mounted pre-amps and even power amps put near the antennas up on the tower to minimize the losses. Once you hit the amp, you can make power (both TX and RX) to send down a longer length of coax. But if the signal is lost getting to the amp it is gone forever.

Excellent point.

 

[N80]

I've been researching all this while reading threads like this, looking for the right solution for me too.

My advice is to measure your signal strength with your cell phone field test. If you can get -100 to -96 dB outside then I would go for it. You can get lower prices buying from someone other than Wilson, but it looks like Wilson has the easiest return policy if it does not work out. I am extremely happy with my results and did not expect it to work as well as it does. Getting the final install done is a bit fiddly but no big deal. I'm just thrilled to have cell service again.

I think it would be worth it to try since you've come this far.

Agreed.

 

[N80]

Okay, I lied. Not my final question above. Next question: grounding. If I leave the yagi on the front porch post, under the eave, I'm not going to worry about grounding it. The amp will be unplugged while we're away anyhow.

If I mount it higher it will be on a plastic conduit pole (the kind of plastic electric lines are run through, it is grey, not sure if it is PVC or not) and will stick up a few feet above the roof line but not above the actual peak of the roof. I don't think the conduit needs to be grounded but the coax does. They make in-line lightning surge protectors. Wilson sells them but they are quite pricey and you also need copper ground to run into the earth too. That could all add up. You can get these connectors online for less than what Wilson charged but I have no idea what specs I need/require. You can also buy typical indoor surge protectors that have coax connectors. Not sure if they are really up to the job.

James, any thoughts on this?

 

[k0ua]

Okay, I lied. Not my final question above. Next question: grounding. If I leave the yagi on the front porch post, under the eave, I'm not going to worry about grounding it. The amp will be unplugged while we're away anyhow.

If I mount it higher it will be on a plastic conduit pole (the kind of plastic electric lines are run through, it is grey, not sure if it is PVC or not) and will stick up a few feet above the roof line but not above the actual peak of the roof. I don't think the conduit needs to be grounded but the coax does. They make in-line lightning surge protectors. Wilson sells them but they are quite pricey and you also need copper ground to run into the earth too. That could all add up. You can get these connectors online for less than what Wilson charged but I have no idea what specs I need/require. You can also buy typical indoor surge protectors that have coax connectors. Not sure if they are really up to the job.

James, any thoughts on this?

Given your circumstances and the low heights, I would not worry too much about the grounding. I will probably get flamed for this, but that is my thoughts. Now a tower installation would be a different matter entirely.

 

[N80]

I'm inclined to agree. Looking online there are very cheap inline surge protectors that you do not ground. I may do this no matter what. For about $16 I can get this if I feel like I need to ground it:

Amazon.com: TII 212 Broadband Cable TV Lightning Surge Protector: Electronics

The one they sell at Wilson is "75 ohm", which is what the system I have is rated at. Not sure if the one referenced above meets that spec but probably does.

Never mind, when I zoomed in on it you can see it is 75 ohm so it seems just right.

 

[k0ua]

I'm inclined to agree. Looking online there are very cheap inline surge protectors that you do not ground. I may do this no matter what. For about $16 I can get this if I feel like I need to ground it:

Amazon.com: TII 212 Broadband Cable TV Lightning Surge Protector: Electronics

The one they sell at Wilson is "75 ohm", which is what the system I have is rated at. Not sure if the one referenced above meets that spec but probably does.

Never mind, when I zoomed in on it you can see it is 75 ohm so it seems just right.

I am not sure how that protector will operate at 1.9 Ghz though. It is rated up to 1 Ghz. But could be very lossy at 1.9ghz.

 

[N80]

Rats. Will keep looking. However, seriously considering just leaving it on the porch post. Its a pretty ugly addition to a rustic looking log cabin.............but I can live with that.

 

[RedNeckGeek]

I think I saw where you were using a 3G LTE cell signal, same as my iPhone 4s uses. I've been using the Wilson antenna (see my previous post for details) and am also having problems with overloading the amp, even with 50' of antenna separation. Replacing the Wilson cables with bulk RG11U and box store screw on connectors didn't noticeably improve signal strength, and did nothing to improve the overload problem.

Verizon Wireless advertises much better coverage for their 4G LTE network these days, and I hope to find out tomorrow when a new iPhone SE arrives that uses the new radios. It may well solve the problem, but if not, I'll be looking to upgrade the Wilson system because I don't think it works with the new 4G LTE setup (please correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[N80]

I got an iPhone 6s before I bought the amplifier. Verizon. No improvement at all over my previous 4s. That's why we broke down and bought the signal booster. I do get LTE inside the cabin now with the signal booster but not all the time.

When we first got cell phones, 10 years ago, Verizon was the only provider that got any coverage there. With our old flip phones we had voice and text with no issues at all. When I got my iPhone 4s I noticed some occasional dropped calls and slow texts. It continued to get worse and prior to getting the booster we could not make a voice call from inside at all. The Verizon coverage map shows coverage there, even when zoomed all the way in. We complained multiple times and they were polite about it but did nothing and offered no explanation why we steadily lost coverage or why we did not have service in areas they claimed had service. Many times the phone would actually say "No Service".

I'd dump Verizon in a heartbeat but none of the other carriers even claims to provide service there and friends with other carriers get little or no service when there.

 

[Redneck in training]

I got an iPhone 6s before I bought the amplifier. Verizon. No improvement at all over my previous 4s. That's why we broke down and bought the signal booster. I do get LTE inside the cabin now with the signal booster but not all the time.

When we first got cell phones, 10 years ago, Verizon was the only provider that got any coverage there. With our old flip phones we had voice and text with no issues at all. When I got my iPhone 4s I noticed some occasional dropped calls and slow texts. It continued to get worse and prior to getting the booster we could not make a voice call from inside at all. The Verizon coverage map shows coverage there, even when zoomed all the way in. We complained multiple times and they were polite about it but did nothing and offered no explanation why we steadily lost coverage or why we did not have service in areas they claimed had service. Many times the phone would actually say "No Service".

I'd dump Verizon in a heartbeat but none of the other carriers even claims to provide service there and friends with other carriers get little or no service when there.

You are right. Not all phones are created equal. Traveling across Kansas my wife's Moto worked most of the time and my Blackberry very seldom.