CDL holders did you know...

[thatguy]

Just got back from Traffic court trying to get a speeding ticket reduced/dismissed based on it was the first ticket I have ever received in 30 yrs of driving..

The judge said that he would offer traffic school, BUT since I have a CDL he can not drop/reduce any traffic tickets based on Federal regulation (the state could lose highway funding if he would)..

I had my CDL for a previous job and have not used it in 14 yrs but just kept it because 'i may need it'.. I should have dropped it years ago - my bad..

Needless to say I turned it in today and got a regular DL - I am hoping that if i do that and appeal the verdict the next judge may also be lient..

On the ticket - I am more worried about the insurance rate hike than anything. I figured I could take my chances and see if i could appeal to the court sympathy with my extremely clean driving record..

Just so you know, as a CDL holder you have no chance of a speeding ticket reduced/dismissed (assuming the judge knows and follows the rules)


anyone know if the 'conviction date' or the 'offense date' would be what the judge takes into consideration..

Brian

 

[thatguy]

just to add more details.. It appears that the judge cant dismiss a ticket, but can reduce the ticket - IF i read it correctly - Someone over on another forum found this, so I am not sure where but I assume you can google 49 CFR Part 384.226 on your own...

==============


The practice of reducing charges, altering speeds, or allowing CDL drivers to attend driving school is specifically prohibited in 49 CFR Part 384.226.

The statute in question is Code of Federal Regulations Title 49 part 384.226 titled: “Prohibition on masking convictions.” That section of the CFR reads as follows:

"The State must not mask, defer imposition of judgment, or allow an individual to enter into a diversion program that would prevent a CDL driver's conviction for any violation, in any type of motor vehicle, of a State or local traffic control law (except a parking violation) from appearing on the driver's record, whether the driver was convicted for an offense committed in the State where the driver is licensed or another State." [67 FR 49762, July 31, 2002]

The key word in understanding this CFR is the word “mask.” The word is not defined by the CFR and it is certainly not self-defining. Recently, the state of Missouri Department of Revenue, the licensing authority for Missouri driver licenses, obtained a written opinion issued by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration concerning “masking” of speed violations. The pertinent part of the opinion is copied verbatim below:

The state of Missouri requested clarification from the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration regarding the masking provisions outlined in the Motor Carrier Safety Improvement Act that became effective on September 30, 2005.

Generally, for masking or diversion to occur, there first must be a judgment of guilt. For example, masking may occur when the court holds the paperwork on a conviction for some reason and does not allow the State to take appropriate action. Diversion may occur when the court allows a driver – after an adjudication of guilt – to perform alternate services such as traffic school to get the conviction erased.

Example: CDL holder is issued a traffic citation for "Excessive Speed" in private vehicle (speeding 75 mph in 60 mph zone). After original charge is filed with court, prosecutor amends original charge to "Speeding 65 mph in a 60 mph zone". Final conviction is for Speeding 65 mph in a 60 mph zone. According to the FMCSA: This practice is not in violation of 49 §CFR 384.226 because the violation was reduced before a judgment of guilt was pronounced. Before we can apply the conditions in 49 §CFR 384.226 to determine whether masking has taken place, there has to be a judgment of guilt (conviction) for a violation. The masking provision in 49 CFR §384.226 do not prevent plea bargaining from taking place.

Additional research has further determined that other states, when examining this question, hold that “masking” means the deferment of a lawful adjudication on the merits. As example, this past February 2007, the state of New Mexico Legislative Finance Committee provided the following explanation on CDL “masking” to the in-coming members of the New Mexico legislature.

The state of New Mexico will lose approximately $10 million this year and $20 million every year thereafter if provisions regarding CDLs are not brought into compliance with federal law. The prohibition against “masking” and the amended definition of “conviction,” are intended to address certain provisions in New Mexico law that the federal government perceives are obstacles to the enforcement of DWI and CDL laws. “Masking” occurs when a court takes action against a driver charged with a violation of the Motor Vehicle Code that has the effect of hiding or nullifying what is, in effect, a conviction, that is, an adjudication of guilt. Courts may do this by deferring sentencing and dismissing charges if a driver complies with the court orders.

Short answer: You can get an amended speed, but not an outright diversion of the charge.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

You can go to traffic school here in Fla to keep from getting the points on your license for certain violations whether you have a CDL or a regular operators license.

 

[phiferpharm]

+1 on Florida. My son did driver's school and he drives Big Rigs.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Yes but the roads are safe these days. Or or they?

I wonder? Comparing the years of collective road experiance of the CDL drivers today to say thirty years ago how it compares?

No shortage of drivers. Just a shortage of drivers willing to submit themselves to sub human standards.

 

[newbury]

Should have titled this thread : "Something you should know before you get a CDL" and put it in Trailers&Transportation.

I had been advised to get a CDL before I got my dually. No problem they said, except for IF you go over the speed limit, and all the other rules and regs, plus increased insurance my provider told me.

 

[Willl]

So,,,,,,,,, were you actually speeding ?

 

[two_bit_score]

So,,,,,,,,, were you actually speeding ?

Who really cares? Speeding tickets are just a revenue raising scam 99.99% of the time.

.

 

[2458n]

That is why the insurance companies are interested. Additional income. My insurance company even looks at your credit score to determine their rates. I carry a CDL and find out the police are very help full in some cases. This is in Ohio and deals with the State Patrol as well as with local enforcement. You must have caught someone having a very bad day. If you go to court and do not know what the judge is going to do you need a new attorney.

 

[mjarrels]

I bet the folks that stole joe the vice presidents truck didn't have this problem.

mark

 

[thatguy]

to touch on a couple of the posts - in no particular order..

If someone with a CDL was offered driving school that was great, they just got a judge that didnt know the regulations.. I just drew one that knew that he couldnt without possibly losing Federal road funds if it was found out..

I had looked into getting an attorney but during the phone consultation was told that it would cost about $600 + having the car dyno'd ($100 ?) plus take a driver improvement course ($80 and a day of my time).. Then based on his experience the best we could hope for was a reduction in amount over the limit (he said the local courts did not offer driving school). Then after the conviction if i wanted to get the points back on my license i would have to take the driver improvement course again ($80 + my time).. in total it would have cost me approx $800 +/- in total..

The ticket is under $200 and I thought (correctly as it turns out if it wasnt for the CDL) 30 yrs of safe driving should count for something.. I am more worried about the affect on insurance.. IF the lawyer said he could make it go away for $X amount I would have had them do it in a heart beat but then a reduction was the best he though I thought I would try it on my own. Some of you will say im crazy for fighting this, but it wont cost me anything more than a day in court to try..


the office that wrote the ticket (also a CDL holder) was just as surprised as i was that the judge couldnt do anything.. we were both slack jawed when the judge told us. I got the impression that he may cut CDL holders some slack in the future though. This is a brand new judge so he obviously does believe in the driving school.

Before I was called up for my case the office had stopped about 10 ppl at the same spot, all for speeding - he also had a few more after me yet to be heard.. It was a good day for the office in that spot..


PLEASE FEEL FREE TO MOVE THIS TO THE TRAILER/TRANSPORTATION SECTION

Brian

 

[Rock knocker]

The Judge can still find you innocent by preponderous evidence

 

[nap61]

The Judge can still find you innocent by preponderous evidence

That would require the judge to violate his sworn duty, if in fact the facts do prove there was a violation. In Louisiana, driving school (and dismissal by the prosecutor) or reduction to a non moving violation (which would not appear on your record) can only be offered by the prosecutor (plea bargin). This happens before the case is presented to the judge - therefore no conviction. The judge can not "dismiss" the case; he can only hear the case (trial) and rule guilty or not guilty.

Norm

 

[thatguy]

That would require the judge to violate his sworn duty, if in fact the facts do prove there was a violation. In Louisiana, driving school (and dismissal by the prosecutor) or reduction to a non moving violation (which would not appear on your record) can only be offered by the prosecutor (plea bargin). This happens before the case is presented to the judge - therefore no conviction. The judge can not "dismiss" the case; he can only hear the case (trial) and rule guilty or not guilty.

Norm

Before I went to court I was trying to find out what to expect. I was 'told' that only the prosecutor could 'make a deal' and I even called the prosecutors office to verify that a prosecutor would be present in court for my trail - BUT when I was called up, it was just the judge, office and me.. NO ONE ELSE..

Somehow in VA the judge has the ability to 'deal' OR they must be doing something wrong... During my trail the judge even said 'i cant even change it to a non-moving violation' so either he has the ability or thinks he does..

I am leaning toward that the judge can deal/dismiss as he sees fit in VA - at least on traffic tickets


Bran

 

[mikehaugen]

another consideration, at least in illinois is that the allowed blood alcohol content is 1/2 of that for non-cdl drivers. 0.08 down to 0.04 if you have a CDL. This doesn't matter what you are driving at the time, be it a 50cc scooter or 80,000lb tractor/trailer. They say it's because they can't know for sure if you are on your way to work.

This is one thing keeping me from getting a CDL "just in case" or for occasional side jobs. Not that I regularly drink and drive, but .04? that is a little to restrictive in my opinion. Couldn't even drink one beer without having to worry, even on a saturday night just driving my pickup.

 

[dmccarty]

another consideration, at least in illinois is that the allowed blood alcohol content is 1/2 of that for non-cdl drivers. 0.08 down to 0.04 if you have a CDL. This doesn't matter what you are driving at the time, be it a 50cc scooter or 80,000lb tractor/trailer. They say it's because they can't know for sure if you are on your way to work.

This is one thing keeping me from getting a CDL "just in case" or for occasional side jobs. Not that I regularly drink and drive, but .04? that is a little to restrictive in my opinion. Couldn't even drink one beer without having to worry, even on a saturday night just driving my pickup.

NC is similar.

BAC is a function of the amount of booze consumed, gender and body weight. At my weight, I would have to drink SIX beers in an hour to get over .08. I am NOT pounding down a six pack in an hour. :shocked: I like to savior my beer. :laughing::laughing::laughing: So I could drink three beers in an hour and be right at .04 but I would not drink three beers in an hour either. :laughing: A man's body will remove one ounce of alcohol in an hour. I think most people get in trouble by going to a bar, party, BBQ and then spending hours drinking. The booze adds up over time even though they might have only been drinking 2-3 drinks an hour. If someone only had two beers an hour, they would be getting rid of one beer as well. However, at the end of the second hour they would have had four beers but gotten rid of two. After three hours, they would have had six beers, three would be process but three would remain. At my weight I would still be at .04. But someone weighing less would be over .04, and with a CDL, they would be in trouble.

Women process alcohol a bit less effectively than men so a women would have a bit more alcohol in her system.

At two drinks per hour it does not take long to get over .08:
Hour # Drinks # Left in body
1 2 1
2 4 2
3 6 3
4 8 4
5 10 5
6 12 6

At the end of six hours, drinking two regular beers, I would be over .08. A person weighing less would be over .08 at hour 4 or 5.

If one drink three beers an hour, the progression happens much faster:
Hour # Drinks # Left in body
1 3 2
2 6 4
3 9 6
4 12 8
5 15 10

I would be at .08 at hour 3. Smaller people, especially women, would be in trouble at hour 2.

Later,
Dan