Cat D6, D8 vs Excavator & dump truck

weedsportpete · Sep 23, 2002

I've got to move a lot of dirt, 1250 cubic yards, about 200 feet away. I'm clearing/cutting back a hill thats too close to my new barn. Instead of just moving it back about 12 feet, I'm going to reduce the slope to about 1' in 10' (after first clearing 12 feet from the barn), and putting a swale in.

The hill runs alongside the long side of the barn, 160' long, and I want the dirt about 100 feet in back of the barn, so technically, some of the dirt will be traveling 260'.

Some of the contractors I've talked to said it was too far to push with a dozer, and they would excavate it into a dump truck and move it back with the truck.

Then another guy said that if I got a really big dozer, like a D6 or D8 (not really sure what these are), that it would not take as long to push that dirt. Maybe 10, 20 hours.. ?? So it would be cheaper to use the big dozer. I also want the area graded (and slightly sloped) and the dump site graded also, which would take a dozer anyway..

So are the big dozers cheaper? I've just started calling around and can't find a D8 yet.. got a line on a D6..

Is this something you can do yourself? Or do you have to have a license/rating?

Pete

cowboydoc · Sep 23, 2002

I'd probably go with a big Cat. The neighbor here has a D8 and rents out for $80 an hour.

As far as doing it yourself to me that's too big of a project for a beginner, esp. if you are going to be renting. You will not get it as good as a good operator for a long time. Plus there is a real skill to moving that much dirt and making it right. If you bought your own and took your time you could probably get the hang of it but even then if you have no experience moving dirt it takes awhile to get it right.

Soundguy · Sep 23, 2002

200' is a long way to push, but you would be surprised what a D8 can do. Our company has dozers all the way from D4H's to a D8. Don't get me wrong now, an excavator can move some dirt fast. Some of the mid size excavators even have an attatched grading blade for light finish work. Juist depends on the truck rental. Here, most companies charge 40 / hour for miniwheelers doing onsite hauling.... Might be cheaper, but take longer to do with the dozers.

Your money, your call.

Soundguy

RanchMan · Sep 23, 2002

weedsportpete -

like a D6 or D8 (not really sure what these are), 

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.caterpillar.com/cgi-bin/equipment_family.cgi?family=Track-Type+Tractors&rgnid=NACD&prdgrpid=482>Here's a link</A> to Caterpillar's web site and you can click on the various sizes of dozers.

I had a D7 do some work on my place a while back. I believe the old axiom of "Bigger is Better" - at least when it applies to dozers. It had the weight to push stuff around that smaller dozers simply couldn't (cat shows it weight @ about 55,000 lbs for their current version of the D7.) Sure, there are some jobs that a small dozer might do better, (maybe tight maneuvering spots, for example) but the big 'uns seem to be a lot more efficient overall.

Some of the contractors I've talked to said it was too far to push with a dozer

I agree with the "another guy" fellow - Sure, the big dozer would have a lot more "miles" on it at the end of the day, but if you are going to have any type of efficiency with the dump truck/loader route, you're talking 2 guys working instead of 1. 200' doesn't seem very far to me (for a big dozer, that is.) For a little one, I could see that as an issue. A good dozer operator will amaze you with what they can accomplish in just a short time.

So are the big dozers cheaper? 

Overall, based on the situation you describe, it seems that the big dozer, while costing more on a per hour basis than a small dozer would probably result in lower out of pocket expense when compared to the multiple machine route (e.g. dump truck, etc.) Can't promise on the economics of course, but it seems the big dozer would be cheaper due to operator expenses (e.g. 1 guy operating the dozer, vs. 2-3 for the other options, depending on how many pieces of equipment are running around your back yard.) 'Round here, the cost runs somewhere in the $1000/day range for a big dozer (D7-D8) and operator.

Sure, there's always more than one way to skin a cat, but personally, I'd go with the big dozer option. ‘Course the only problem is after you watch those guys do stuff up close, you may want a dozer of your own (which is a whole other discussion! /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif)

ScottAR · Sep 23, 2002

Dozers are pretty efficent up to about 450-500ft. Over 500ft, scrapers take over till about 1000', then the lines get muddier. Of course, the larger the dozer, the more it can move a pass. I'd go with either a good sized dozer or a smallish scraper. An excavator can load a truck quickly, but the truck will have a slow cycle time. Here's a late model D8L to give you an idea. If you'd like a pic of somthing else, let me know.

BillG_in_TX · Sep 23, 2002

Course the only problem is after you watch those guys do stuff up close, you may want a dozer of your own (which is a whole other discussion!)

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin/compact/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=construction&Number=167605&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=>Like this one?</A> /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

jtn · Sep 23, 2002

Without knowing what the terrain in the area is like I would agree that a dozer is better. Since I assume the contractor would be using an on road truck, as opposed to an Artic, it would have limited capabilites off road especially in wet conditions. A dozer is also better if you want the dirt spread out instead of piled up after it has been moved.

I would say you do not need anything larger than D6 size with a good operator, anything larger and you may have transportation problems which would mean extra cost. I also would not reccomend taking this on yourself unless you are an experienced dozer operator.

JT

weedsportpete · Sep 23, 2002

Looks like I'm going for the dozer! Well, I'll get someone to run it. Wish I had a couple of weeks to play with one.

As far as terrain, except for the hill I'm cutting back, its either flat or gently sloping land. Almost all of it hardpan clay. Maybe I should wait for more rain, to soften up the ground. But I've really got to get this cut back soon.

Appreciate the information from everyone. Also, knowing that D6 is fine, don't need a D8, is helpful. The one D6 I've come across so far is all booked up, but I'll keep looking.

Pete

Anonymous Poster · Sep 24, 2002

Pete, if you got NY red clay, and it's the way ours is here, from lack of rain, rent one with a single shank ripper, or don't bother.

Wingnut · Sep 24, 2002

Go with the big 'cat and forget any thoughts about doing it yourself. Catskinners take awhile to learn their trade and an experienced operator will do it in "half the time".
The oil mine that I worked at many years ago had "everything" including the (at that time) new D10 cats. A big cat can work rings around an excavator and truck combo.
Don't forget that what you're doing with the overburden is to spread it elsewhere .... so the cat can strip move and place at one time.