Cat '0' 540 PTO Sprayer

Anonymous Poster · Dec 14, 2001

Cat \'0\' 540 PTO Sprayer

Looking for a resource for a Cat 0 3-point PTO sprayer for my JD445. I can live with 25 gallon but would prefer 50 gallon w/10' boom and spray gun (the tractor will handle the weight w/ front counterweight). I have been told to go ahead an buy a small Cat 1 and modify the pins and/or frame. Any advice or company reference would be appreciated. Live in Delaware and would pay shipping if necessary.

Thanks in advance--Pete
bigpete@dmv.com

Anonymous Poster · Dec 14, 2001

Re: Cat \'0\' 540 PTO Sprayer

...Cat 0 3-point PTO sprayer for my JD445...

Hi Pete,

I'm not aware of any "CAT 0" 3-pt sprayer...

However, you may want to consider...

I feel it would be economically unfeasible to convert your garden tractor from Cat 0 ---> Cat I, besides most Cat I implements would cause rear/tire/ballast interference being mounted on a garden tractor...

Finally, it's a safety issue..., if you were successful in converting and installing a 50 gallon sprayer{3pt. mounted}, you've got 400 lbs. of liquid + the weight of the sprayer dangling off the rear of that garden tractor... how do you expect to control/steer this unit...?

I would reconsider, and go with a tow sprayer unit with a 12 vdc. electric pump that should do the job as well and safer... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

ecard · Dec 14, 2001

Re: Cat \'0\' 540 PTO Sprayer

I agree with John. That sounds like a lot of weight for cat 0 and most of the cat 0 3ph I am use to are manual lift - wow that would be a challenge.

While we are on this subject, does anyone know how to use cat 0 implements on a cat 1? I have a cultivator for my sears tractor and would like to use it behind my TC33D.

Thanks,

Eric

bigpete · Dec 14, 2001

Re: Cat \'0\' 540 PTO Sprayer

Thanks. Actually, the tractor can handle the weight and many Cat 0/1 implements, as long as the pins are removeable on the attachment and the attachment frame can accommodate the 26" spread of the lift arms. JD offers a Cat 0/1 tiller weighing in near 400 lbs. The front end of the tractor accommodates 360 lbs of suitcase weights in a JD stock bracket. The company-written specs state that the total tractor weight can be increased by about 1,500 lbs (rider, attachment and weights). My land is flat and my useage is at the "estate" level. Just looking to take care of about four acres of good fescue.

It certainly isn't a compact utility and I don't have that much work for it. JD makes a loader for this unit that is of limited use. The unit has almost the same weight and wheelbase specs as the Kubota BX series which has somehow found a way to offer a Cat 1. If I find that much work I'll move up to the 4100+ models.

Best regards,
Pete

bigpete · Dec 14, 2001

Re: Cat \'0\' 540 PTO Sprayer

Eric,

The 400 series has full hydraulics - 600+ lbs lift capacity. The tractor weighs about 1,000 lbs; 20 to 22 hp gas or diesel. Pushes a 60" belly mower without hesitation. Some call it a sub-compact size. I call it a gonzo garden tractor.

Some of the Cat 0/1 attachments use sleeves to "shim up" the attachement pins to the appropriate diameter for cat 1 lifts (5/8" to 7/8", I think). Find the right size pipe (I.D. & O.D) and cut to length.

Pete

Anonymous Poster · Dec 14, 2001

Re: Cat \'0\' 540 PTO Sprayer

Here you go:
http://www.agspray.com/paint.htm

Anonymous Poster · Dec 14, 2001

Re: Cat \'0\' 540 PTO Sprayer

Here's another
http://www.ketchum-hurricane.com/agspray.htm

Anonymous Poster · Dec 14, 2001

Re: Cat \'0\' 540 PTO Sprayer

...The 400 series has full hydraulics - 600+ lbs lift capacity...

Pete,

You're not confusing loader 'breakout force" with 3-pt. lift capacity on that garden tractor are you...?

I don't mean to bang you over the head or anything but... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

I have a Satoh compact tractor, about 2100 lbs, with maybe another 500-600 lbs. of rear loaded tires & about 120 lbs. loaded front tires and the right rear implements of 500+ lbs. can lift my nose up... /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

Again, we are talking garden tractors here... I believe on the JD garden tractors with a loader, the full height lift capacity is about 200 lbs. with all else being equal, & being properly ballasted. {and the Cat 0 3-pt is normally less}

I look at a tractor as a big lever... you hang so much weight off the back of that lever without doing something to the front {ballast}...well the front just goes airborne like a kid's seesaw... then you hang too much weight off the front to compensate... you've now far exceeded the ratings and have an upside down "U" {^} or almost broken seesaw... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Not to come full circle or anything, but I'd go back to a "tow sprayer" because a heavy attachment on the back end of that garden tractor just won't cut the mustard... /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

{I know you are proud of your JD445... you should be, it's a fine machine... but everything has it's limitations... I just want you to see the safety issues involved here. We all can talk spec's until we're blue in the face... I'm coming from a practical and experience standpoint... I just don't want to see ya get hurt Pete.../w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif}

bigpete · Dec 14, 2001

Re: Cat \'0\' 540 PTO Sprayer

Thanks, John. A little credit though, please. Pride has nothing to do with my decsision making process and I'm certainly not trying to make this tractor into something it is not. I'm not going to hurt myself or my tractor (I'm far to frugal and I love my kids). My concerns are the same. That's why I'm working with my dealer, Deere, and asking you guys questions. BTW, I am used to everybody telling me to pull stuff, but Deere put the hitch and PTO on that tractor for a reason--limited, as it is. For two years I have been safely using a stock Cat 0 Befco PTO 3 1/2 bushel (226 lbs + 65 lbs) spreader, stock Vassar 5 1/2 bushel (450 lbs loaded) Cat 0 reversible rear scoop. I bought these through my dealer when I bought the tractor, warrantees included. It is in no way a compact utility, but its a great and powerfull little estate tractor--not for ag or construction.

The specs are accurate, and I do not intend to push them. Nor would Deere sell an attachment that would put them in a liability position. They offer 3-point collection sytems for this line that weigh over 400lbs loaded--that is why they offer the 360 lb weight bracket for the front--Designed by Deere--not a modification--not stretching it.

The 25 gallon version is the logical candidate after what I am hearing and seeing.

To harmonize with you notions on the tractor's abilities, I repeat:

It certainly isn't a compact utility and I don't have that much work for it. JD makes a loader for this unit that is of limited use (215 lbs max--worthless to most anyone). The unit has almost the same weight and wheelbase specs as the Kubota BX series which has somehow found a way to offer a Cat 1. If I find that much work I'll move up to the 4100+ models.

Have a great weekend,
Pete

ecard · Dec 14, 2001

Re: Cat \'0\' 540 PTO Sprayer

Sounds like the 400 series is a serious machine - it would be nice to have around my vegetable garden. I do remember my father in law (a serious farmer 800 + acres) telling me about sprayers and he recommended a sprayer with wheels (Trailer) because the possibility of getting stuck. I don't remember the exact conversation but that moght be another advantage with regard to ruts or damage to a lawn/garden.

I personally like the 3ph and come spring I will be in the market for a 50 or 100 gal model for my TC33D.

Eric

Anonymous Poster · Dec 14, 2001

Re: Cat \'0\' 540 PTO Sprayer

Hi Pete,

It sure sounds like you get a lot of mileage/use out of your JD garden tractor... perhaps more so than some guys here using their compacts.../w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

Everything in life has a reference...ex. a Sr. Citizen having a loader on their JD445 moving heavy items & saving their back doesn't quite look the same to the construction worker who just spent the day running an excavator.../w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

I didn't see how many acres you happen to manage from your profile, so maybe you would be a great candidate for a 4100 or larger... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Pete, you have a good weekend yourself... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

bigpete · Dec 14, 2001

Re: Cat \'0\' 540 PTO Sprayer

I do get a lot of utility out of the tractor. Occasionally I do wish I'd have stepped up to the 4100. Mostly when it comes to finding attachments /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif.

I bought the 445 for its outstanding (I mean this...) mowing abilities. IMO, it is the Porsche of mowers for any homeowner with 2 to 10 acres of quality turf (I have a liitle less than 4 acres of nice fescue). Especially if you have other chores for which you need attachments. Since 80% of my tractor time is spent with the 60" of blades whirling, I went for the nimble characteristics of the 400 series. It leaves only a 24" circle uncut with the wheels cranked and will cut with a mulching kit installed running at 8 MPH without lugging a bit. If I had any brushcutting or bush hog work, I'd need more weight and torque.

I did my homework and matched my needs pretty well. The commercial ZT mowers are faster, but you get only a mower. In addition to the attachments described above, I have a 54" snow/light grading blade with hydraulic angling, lift and float. Add up the cost of all these things and it about equaled the cost of a 4100 HST with a 60" deck. I did not get (don't need) the toy loader, or I would have definately been in the 4000 series owners club. I have been able to take care of quite a bit of landscaping, grading, and very light earthmoving with the rear scoop and front blade. My only hindsight, but not a regret, is not stepping up to the 3-cylinder Yanmar diesel in the 455. The 445 has a 22 hp fuel-injected, water-cooled gas engine. She never complains about anything I come up with.

I guess I am a bit proud./w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

BTW, Deere will try to further blur the line between garden tractor and compact utility definitions this coming spring with its new 500 series. They are trying to go head-to-head with the Kubota BX series
Thanks again,

Pete

ChrisR · Dec 18, 2001

Re: Cat \'0\' 540 PTO Sprayer

Hi Big Pete

These people should have exactly what your looking for.

www.hardi-us.com/Product/product.htm

Regards

Chris

Edited by ChrisR on 12/18/01 07:20 AM (server time).

TresCrows · Dec 18, 2001

Re: Cat \'0\' 540 PTO Sprayer

"Some would call it a sub-compact"--some would not include me. Unfortunately, a 445, and I am being honest--my neigbor has a 455--is a much smaller machine than a BX when ya got both side by side and probably more than 400 lbs lighter--maybe more! Go down to Tractor Supply Company and look at their units. They have some very nice pull behind units both electric and gasoline powered that would be great behind your "gonzo" GT. They are so nice I would get one for the BX if I needed one--why--because the BX would be out of balance also likely with a 55 gallon sprayer 3-point mounted. Now something in the 25 gallon range might work for the 4 series or the BX as well. Since you do not have a 540 PTO, I assume, you will need an electric pump motor or a gasoline powered one--TSC has both and components to build what you need. I would run mine using a roller pump of the PTO but I bet your 445 can run an electric pump and be just as effective. TSC may be a little slim this time of year on such things but they have a great catalog to order from--here is their web address---www.tractorsupplyco.com---.
I have seen these up close and they are very nice. Unfortunately they are red so you will have to paint yours green and I will paint mine orange. Atwoods may have similar units. Good luck. J

TresCrows · Dec 18, 2001

Re: Cat \'0\' 540 PTO Sprayer

Also--Carver has some 3-point units that are a bit smaller than 55 gallons. He has one made up for the BX and it is a perfect size for that tractor though it is PTO powered and may still be to large for your 445 but maybe with front weights it could work and maybe it could be setup with an electric pump motor--I bet it can. Really, I doubt you can get much of a three point unit on the back of your GT but it could be a worthwhile exercise in convincing yourself to move up to a BX, Cub, JD4100, Kubota 7500 or 2410 or something similar.
J

bigpete · Dec 18, 2001

Re: Cat \'0\' 540 PTO Sprayer

Thanks for the advice. The 25- 30 gallon range is clearly the best for both the 4XX and the BX. I really did do my homework, guys!

As to differentiating the 4XX and the BX, that was not the intent of this post, but here goes: it's not as dramatic as you think! I may be moving up after the next mowing season, but beyond the BX series. It's a great tractor that only barely expands upon the JD455. Here's the difference:

Wheel Base: Kub=55.1" 445/455=50.4
Width: (Min. Tread) Kub=45" 445/455=45" (Wide stance=47")
Wheels: 26R, 18 Fr-Both
Engine: 22HP, 3-Cyl Diesel-Both (BX2200 & 455)
PTO: 2000 Mid; 540 Rear (Rear optional on 4XX)
3-Point: Kub=Cat 1 4XX=Cat 0
3-Point capacity 24" behind lift: Kub=662# 4XX=650#
Weight: Kub=1,015 445/455=816 (dry) {Kub does not spec dry weights}
ROPS: Kub=Y (not ANSI) 445/455=N (aftermarket available)
4WD: Kub=standard 4XX=N/A

The Kubota has "hands down" the better commercial package and 4WD. As to JD, prices are multiplied by optional 3-Point and rear PTO. The added length and 200# weight is from four inches of frame (length) and the front transaxle, both require to go 4WD. JD will match those specs in its 500 series next spring, but you will have to pay for it.

The JD 3-Point lift should not be thought of as a Cat 1 and I do not. Kubota engineers have pushed the limits by adding pin diameter and arm spread to a Cat 0 hydraulic capacity/tractor weight ratio. My father is a retired JD engineer (from the Cedar Falls plant in the 60's) and is a mechanical engineer specializing in product liability as a professional witness (one of those guys!). The general concensus (guideline) among SAE engineers for REAL utility from a Cat 1 3-point is a minimum of 850" 24" behind the lift arms.

I have found both an AG Spray and Broyhill Cat 0 540 sprayer that are made for this level of use. Stickin' with the 25 gallon.

Regards,

Pete

Russ · Dec 18, 2001

Re: Cat \'0\' 540 PTO Sprayer

Pete,
I bought a 25 gallon sprayer for my BX2200. I bought what a lot places call a AVT sprayer. One that can sit on the rear rack of an ATV. I made a 3pt platform for it. It has an 12volt pump that I run off the tractors battery. It has both a hand sprayer and a boom. It works very well. I don't know what you have found but all the sprayers I looked at that had a PTO pump were pretty expensive. Your 455 should handle the 25-30 gallon take fine.

Russ

TresCrows · Dec 19, 2001

Re: Cat \'0\' 540 PTO Sprayer

Bigpete, Russ hit on an idea I forgot about and Tractor Supply also has the ATV type which can be adapted to a 3-point with a bit of work.
I have enough Kubota/BX battles going on and attributed to me without another--but--your figures are actually incorrect--I have the brochures, tech sheets and manuals. The specified weight of the bare BX is 1300 lbs with ROP, mower deck adds I think 275 lbs, the FEL adds about 560 lbs and a box blade will add another 300ish. The weights given for my neighbors JD455 are with the MMM installed and it is just shy of 1000 lbs at 965 lbs. That makes a BX about 600 lbs heavier equipped similarly not to mention sitting side by side I look down on the top of my neighbors head mostly due to the higher flat deck design of the BX which makes conversation along the property line uncomfortable for him, the BX is also substantialy beefier in the 3/8 inch thick welded steel frame and additional support and loader subframe/arms needed to handle the loader and 3-point. Our houses are side by side--his slips and spins in places the BX does not come close to spinning at. It is also impressive when our lawns were new and soft after a rain--his 455 did not leave any impression at all but with the BX--stripped of it's loader etc--you could see the squishing of the wet soil out away from the tires--yep there is a good deal weight difference. There is also, I fear to say, considerably more tractive pulling power available for whatever reason. My harrow which the BX pulls effortlessly at any speed his 455 can only pull the first half (it seperates into two sections) and then it struggles for traction. I do not know why--I am just telling you what I observe first hand--side by side under the exact same conditions. I struggle less with the BX it almost seems with my 4 foot boxblade than he with half my harrow. Brochures cannot answer these things.
I do not mean to give the impression the 400 series are not good garden tractors--they are a Cadillac GT--just a very expensive one.
Check out those ATV type sprayers, the trailer arrangement may still be preferred--se what ya think!
J

Anonymous Poster · Dec 19, 2001

Re: Cat \'0\' 540 PTO Sprayer

For cripes sake. Blah, blah, blah. Neither one of you two are using a compact tractor. 300 lbs and 4 wheel drive doesn't do anything but give you more traction. Both have estate features and Kubota has found a way to convince homeowners that they are operating an industrial machine when they pull the BX past the mercedes in the garage. Sure the JD slips. Its two wheel drive and shouldn't be field operated. Both work great for jobs that run under 5 hours a week but you'll never find either on a worksite or farm. You guys should save your debate for happy hour at the country club bar.

No disrespect intended... I thought this was about sprayers.

Anonymous Poster · Dec 19, 2001

Re: Cat \'0\' 540 PTO Sprayer

...Blah, blah, blah...

J,

Have you considered changing your cologne...? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

What is it...?... you seem to attract this attention like flys on.... well... flys on.... well... a jelly sandwich! /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif