Car vs SUV safety

[Piper2022]

Like alot of you guys I live in a real setting which requires commuting a decent distance for work every day. I personally drive 350 miles per week for work. I am a recent college grad and before I got out of school I drove the old family 2500 suburban. I loved it, other that the fuel costs it was excellent. I could throw almost anything in the back of it and I never put enough miles on it to care about fuel consumption. For the last 2 years since I started my full time job I have been driving a 05 outback. It just threw a connecting rod through the block so I am on the hunt for a new vehicle. I will put a used engine in the Subaru at some point but I am pretty pissed it blew at 140k.

Now car/truck/suv shopping has got me thinking about what to buy next. As much as I should buy a small commuter car I just can't get myself to drive a small car. There have been a ton accidents near me that have got me thinking about a safe ride. Last summer a girl in my town crossed the centerline for "unknown" reasons and hit a motorcyclist killing him and injuring his wife. I drove by this accident last winter right after it happened and I still have it in the back of my mind. This is 5 mins from my place http://bangordailynews.com/2013/01/...ng-raymond-crash-treated-for-fractured-skull/







I know it's a older model compact car but it was literally torn apart when it was hit by a pickup.

I was arguing with a friend from highschool who is one of those completely paranoid gun guys who concealed carries almost 24/7 and truly thinks he needs it to save his life someday. I understand carrying but we live jn maine. I personally feel the same way about driving larger well designed vehicles. The chances of getting hit by some 16 year old texting is much greater.

It comes down to the simple physics of f=ma. No matter how many airbags a new ford fiesta has when a 2700lbs car collides with a 6000lbs Tahoe the energy has to go somewhere.

How many of you guys drive large vehicles to help keep you and/or your family safe?

I don't plan on getting anything too crazy for a new rig, maybe an 09 tacoma, or a 4 runner. Although my dream vehicle would be a new Ltz Burban.

 

[Looking4new]

I've got a 2001 Jeep Wrangler Sport and as far as I am concerned it is great! Fuel mileage is so-so but I don't worry much about going where I want in any kind of weather or road conditions as long as I use my head. My commute is 175 miles one way. I only do the round trip once every two weeks. If I had to get another vehicle I would probably take a good hard look at a ford F-250 4X4.

 

[dave1949]

Those cross the centerline crashes just keep happening lately in Maine. It is getting a bit spooky. I don't think there is any question you are safer in a larger vehicle overall.

For the miles you are commuting and the driving conditions in winter, I don't think there are any really good mileage (mpg) cars that will work for you year-round. We have a Honda Civic that gets 40 mpg highway but it's not a Maine winter car. Too light to cut through slush and deep snow pack, plus a little squirrely on slippery stuff. There is a basic mismatch between a small light car and Maine road conditions, like the 3" tall ice ridges we had along the lane edges this year. Those aren't much of an issue with a larger, heavier vehicle.

I would look for 4x4 or at least AWD. Lots of people drive Subaru's around here, they seem to be a good compromise. Sorry yours broke.

 

[s219]

Large by itself does not mean safe -- I'd feel safer in a modern compact than a 70's barge in most crash scenarios. Then there's the matter of hitting an immovable object, like a bridge abutment or big tree. If safety is important, consider the crash ratings of the vehicles you are looking at, not just size.

 

[Soundguy]

Now car/truck/suv shopping has got me thinking about what to buy next. As much as I should buy a small commuter car I just can't get myself to drive a small car. There have been a ton accidents near me that have got me thinking about a safe ride..

my daily ride is a 99 f350 7.3psd DRW I feel quite safe in it. Guy in a half ton tapped me at a redlight a year ago.. looked like he had driven into a brick wall at highway speed. Put a quarter sized dent in my metal bumper. I got to work a few minutes late .. he , i don;t think was able to drive the vehile from the scene.

i bought my wife an econo car in 09.. kia rio.. she was at a redlight car hit her from the rear.. totaled rio.. no damage to car that hit her. suv in front of her that she got pushed into had a 400$ bumper cover damaged.

I hope to never drive a crackerbox again. My wife started driving her 2000 yukon again after that.

while you might be safe in those tin cans where 100% of the car is a crumple zone .. that's all and well.. but a fender bender totaling a car? really. I like my big truck... i don't mind if the little car crumples up all over my bumper cuz the other driver was looking at his gps....

 

[Piper2022]

Getting to s219's post that is one of the main reasons I bought the subaru I have now. It was the first year to have side airbags and a 5 star crash rating. As much as I use to love my 99 suburban alot of those older vehicles they don't do as well as some would think when hitting an immobile object.

I have thought about a newer small suv like a rav4, crv, highlander, etc. As non manly as are they make sense. Basically an awd car that sits higher up and has more space.

 

[dave1949]

Our other car is a '07 Ford Sport Trac 4x4. I always thought they were pretty goofy vehicles but when I looked at what we need it for, it was a good choice.

They seat four comfortably, four doors. Ours is used to haul our two dogs, I took the backseat out. The mini bed in back is ideal for hauling 5 gal. jugs of diesel and gas, running stuff to the recycle center. The locking, folding tonneau cover is nice. With the tailgate down, it will haul 8' boards, 12' with a $90 bed extender. Decent towing capacity.

It's not a real truck, but it does 90% of what people typically do with a pickup. Mileage isn't great. Maybe 21-22 mpg highway on a good summer day. 16-18 mpg for winter short trips. Heavy enough to go good in snow.

 

[s219]

Getting to s219's post that is one of the main reasons I bought the subaru I have now. It was the first year to have side airbags and a 5 star crash rating. As much as I use to love my 99 suburban alot of those older vehicles they don't do as well as some would think when hitting an immobile object.

I have thought about a newer small suv like a rav4, crv, highlander, etc. As non manly as are they make sense. Basically an awd car that sits higher up and has more space.

If you are used to Subaru AWD, many of the others will be a disappointment -- they are basically FWD with a part time AWD that kicks in under slippage. I had 5 Subarus and loved them all in winter weather; the Honda and Toyota AWD vehicles we've owned were real dogs in comparison. Still much better than 2WD, but not as great as the Subarus. The Honda/Toyota/etc vehicles were nose-heavy FWD platforms adapted to AWD. Next new vehicle, I definitely plan to go back to Subaru. The new Foresters look pretty nice. Waiting to see how the new Outbacks will look (2015 models will be all-new I believe). Of course, I also want a full-size pickup too.... Need to get the wife on board with a new two-vehicle plan....

 

[Tollster]

I am very rural as well, but split my commuter trips with an adventure motorcycle to conserve fuel cost when I can... when its your time to go, it doesn't matter what you are going to be driving.. scrub the paranoia and live.

You have more of a chance of hitting a moose, just remain aware and cognizant of your surrounds and the other guy.. Vary your route from time to time, and be aware of those MORE deadly spots on highways if you can, we all know where they are, if you don't, you need to make yourself more aware.
I said "more" because they all are, but some more than others.

If I lived in jersey, well, I would drive a tank!

 

[JDgreen227]

MY primary ride is a Y2K Yukon XL 2500...full frame and a lot of weight, although it sucks gas I feel much safer driving it than I do my car ('04 Saturn L-300). Sad thing is, no matter how big your vehicle is you are at the mercy of the capability of other drivers. When there was an ice storm in mid-Michigan a week before Christmas last year and the power was out everywhere, it amazed me how many idiots would go through the unlighted traffic signals like they had a green light when they should have treated such a situation like a 4-way stop. I started a thread elsewhere on TBN about moronic drivers...I see a LOT of those turds no matter where I go.

 

[JMER817]

Like alot of you guys I live in a real setting which requires commuting a decent distance for work every day. I personally drive 350 miles per week for work. I am a recent college grad and before I got out of school I drove the old family 2500 suburban. I loved it, other that the fuel costs it was excellent. I could throw almost anything in the back of it and I never put enough miles on it to care about fuel consumption. For the last 2 years since I started my full time job I have been driving a 05 outback. It just threw a connecting rod through the block so I am on the hunt for a new vehicle. I will put a used engine in the Subaru at some point but I am pretty pissed it blew at 140k. Now car/truck/suv shopping has got me thinking about what to buy next. As much as I should buy a small commuter car I just can't get myself to drive a small car. There have been a ton accidents near me that have got me thinking about a safe ride. Last summer a girl in my town crossed the centerline for "unknown" reasons and hit a motorcyclist killing him and injuring his wife. I drove by this accident last winter right after it happened and I still have it in the back of my mind. This is 5 mins from my place http://bangordailynews.com/2013/01/05/news/portland/baby-ejected-from-car-during-raymond-crash-treated-for-fractured-skull/ <img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=365271"/> I know it's a older model compact car but it was literally torn apart when it was hit by a pickup. I was arguing with a friend from highschool who is one of those completely paranoid gun guys who concealed carries almost 24/7 and truly thinks he needs it to save his life someday. I understand carrying but we live jn maine. I personally feel the same way about driving larger well designed vehicles. The chances of getting hit by some 16 year old texting is much greater. It comes down to the simple physics of f=ma. No matter how many airbags a new ford fiesta has when a 2700lbs car collides with a 6000lbs Tahoe the energy has to go somewhere. How many of you guys drive large vehicles to help keep you and/or your family safe? I don't plan on getting anything too crazy for a new rig, maybe an 09 tacoma, or a 4 runner. Although my dream vehicle would be a new Ltz Burban.

Be care now, there are a lot of us "gun guys" on this forum

 

[Bocephous]

A few years ago my wife was driving her older Subaru Forester home from work (after dark) on I-81. A Honda Civic had stalled in the right hand lane and did not have its lights or hazards on. She tried to avoid it as she saw it but still made contact with the left rear of the Honda. She flipped the Subaru in the median at 65mph. It was totalled, she had a small bruise on her shoulder from the seat belt strap. When I looked at the Subie I was amazed at the lack of damage to the main compartment of the car. The front end was much damaged, but the roof area, while scraped up pretty well, was not crushed in the least bit.

 

[Soundguy]

Be care now, there are a lot of us "gun guys" on this forum

bitter gun owner that also may cling to higher power values too, as dear leader may have implied.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I have been all over the place on this subject having two 16 year olds starting to drive.

The lightest car I have owned was a 1973 Datsun 1200 couple. It was small enough where I was able to avoid some accidents that I might not in the 2000 Towncar.

It may just depend on the factors in each accident scene. As noted above the Subaru passenger cage is well engineered to protect those inside.

A rolling, flipping stop can be more safe than a sudden stop.

Does anyone have data on different classes of vehicles?

The skills and response of the driver can be a HUGE factor. Getting the kids to focus on all potential risks from all directions at all times is a chore. Just taking the foot off the gas when detecting a potential risk can increase safety.

Tanks are OK but can be more dangerous. Actually the Datsun 1200 was awesome on snow and ice. Dad took mine when I went into the Navy so I bought a twin to it when I out of the Navy because gas was like 60 cents by then and he wanted to keep it. We put nearly 200K on each and never was in an accident but had some close calls.

I would stick with a Subaru or good mileage car is driving long distance daily. The Towncar gets 22 MPG on road trips but it is paid for and in great shape having just redone the frontend and underside including new brakes and shocks at 140K. The son is already 6'3" and to my surprise prefers the Towncar over S-10 Blazer and pick up. They have not been cut loose on the 2003 Escalade because it is the best wheels we own. The daughter likes the height of the Blazer.

 

[westcliffe01]

There is the question of the outcome of a collision between a 7000lb ladder frame truck and a frameless 2500lb compact car. Depending on speed, one can be pretty sure how that is going to go, since the body on frame trucks in the US are not designed to be "friendly" in a collision. That is not true for passenger cars in Europe. The heavier the car, the larger the crumple zones have to be to protect smaller vehicles.

Every one of us who chooses to "go big" is adding to the safety problem and not deducting from it. Most of the time, people driving the "big rigs" feel immune to getting stuck, losing control or from injury in an accident. Often, these are the precursor to an accident happening in the first place. They have no problem going, but often much greater issues stopping or maintaining directional control when going. So don't be the guy running down the people in the compact cars who are maintaining control, when you cannot, or cannot stop.

I have both types of vehicles. I have had as commuting vehicles a Kia Spectra, Chevrolet Cobalt and currently a Kia Rio. I also have a 2wd Dodge Ram 1500 that is generally unable to get out its parking spot in winter conditions and generally is a death trap in any kind of slick conditions (and I spent $700 putting snow tires on it to try to improve this, but to little avail.) I also have a 2008 F250 4x4. Great ground clearance and true 4wd, but trying to get that 7500lb curb weight beast to stop requires a lot of anticipation and testing braking traction long before you have the need to stop. If I have a smaller car in front of me I have to maintain a much longer following distance because the compacts are always able to stop in 1/2 to 1/3 the distance that I can. And running into the back of one of those is not going to be a good thing for the people/kids in the compact and I would be 100% to blame.

There are very few conditions that require me to use the F250 in the winter. Usually, the time that I will get it out is when my wife, who works at a hospital, HAS to get to work and we had 18" of snow and the plow trucks have not even started plowing secondary roads (apparently this is now the norm in Jackson County - wait 2-3days before any secondary roads get cleared). We had 2 such occasions this year with deep snow, no plowing and -19F cold along with -40F wind chill. Very dangerous to be outside and potentially fatal if you do get stuck and are not prepared properly for a walk out. We came very close to getting stuck one time but just scraped out of that situation and needless to say there were very few cars on the road except for an idiot new neighbor who thought that his van could handle 2 foot snow drifts.

In my opinion, it is an extremely wasteful exercise driving a 5000-8000lb vehicle so you can feel safe. My fuel bill is about $34/week with the Kia (which I got used for $3800 btw a 2008 model) whereas it would be close to $80/wk if I drove the Dodge Ram (which cant even get out the driveway) and with current diesel prices it would be close to $125/wk with the F250. That adds up to a LOT of money in a year.

I have only been in 1 accident so far, and that was with the Chevy Cobalt when I slid into the back of a truck when he stopped unexpectedly in the middle of a difficult intersection in a snowstorm. It was a <20mph collision and of course there was not a scratch on the truck since it was all plastic vs the 5000lb tow hitch on the truck(it had no bumper and was raised up high in the air). But I was not hurt and the airbags did not deploy. I have avoided a LOT of accidents by being the one who was in control, even if that sometimes meant I had to steer into the ditch to avoid someone who bounced their spinning car off the concrete median into my lane.

The "real" AWD passenger cars like the Audi's, and Subarus (and meanwhile lots of others) give their drivers the best possibility of staying in control and avoiding situations, but one has to be aware of what the idiots around you are up to. If you are being followed really close by an SUV or truck in bad conditions, sometimes the best course of action is to slow way down and force them to pass you, before they run you over when you have to react to something in front of you. I ALWAYS put snow tires on my vehicles. For $450-$750 its far cheaper insurance than buying and feeding a fuel hog. I need the F250 to tow my #8000 loader backhoe and gooseneck trailer, but a commuting vehicle it is not.

 

[Looking4new]

So that is an easy choice for you. Daughter gets Blazer, junior gets Town car.

 

[WayneB]

Presently I drive a Volvo V-50 and it is a nice small ride and the mpg on the highway is a bit better than 30MPG. I was looking to trade it in for the new model Volvo offers, V-60 but when I looked at it the price of anything they had on the lot was close to $40,000.00 which I felt was outside of what I desire to pay. Also looking at the BMW X-1 which is a nice ride with lot of features and pretty well loaded you can drive away for around $35,000.00. This also come with a 4 year 50,000 mile bumper to bumper coverage. So we are trying to figure out just what to do come May.

 

[westcliffe01]

Or you can do a 2007-2008 Audi A4 with the 1.8 or 2.0 turbo engine and <50k miles for about $13k.

 

[JDgreen227]

westcliffe01 presented several excellent points, the most important being (in my biased opinion) the comparison between a full framed 7000 pound truck and a 2500 pound unibody car. I also concur it's wasteful to use a large vehicle just so you feel safe. My 3-ton GMC logs mileage between 1500-1800 a year, and during those miles it's either it's pulling a trailer, hauling cargo, carrying six to eight passengers, or needed for deep snow and poor traction conditions. At the mileage it delivers only a rich idiot would use it for everyday transportation. I complained in another thread about "Moronic Drivers" and I think in inclement weather many of those people who drive a 4X4 truck or AWD car feel just because they have superior traction to get moving from a stop, their vehicles are magically immune to the laws of friction, gravity, and inertia when it comes to cornering and braking.

 

[buickanddeere]

FIL is a retired firechief. Sister is a paramedic and ER RN. Both say that in a multi vehicle crash. The larger vehicle "wins".
A raised drawbar in a trailer hitch can tend to soften a hit from the rear by forcing the drawbar vehicle up and the impacting vehicle down.
Even with a trucks terrible mileage. If it's just an extra thousand a year in fuel, who cares.