Canadian cross boarder shopping (Long)

[JDCAN]

Gordnovo, you are only posting a full gst credit will be issued, but you have not posted me any information that shows it can be claimed in the same quauter. All you have posted is anything over 50 percent business use will qualify a full gst input tax credit, now please post me where it states in the same quater?

And sorry amigo none of my buddies own video stores it was an example for simpletons, since you got so off topic from the original poster and seem interested in the example I used, are you thinking about opening up a video store up in little old manitoba?

Gordnovo after you posted GST is a given you will get it back and pst exempt forums can bill filled out by almost anyone , I think the example you used was "All your dealer needs is your section/township/range, and voila, no PST! "

Sure buddy, what ever you say. I don't think that information is accurate and I would hate anyone on this forum to go by that and buy a tractor and think all the pst and gst is coming back.

By the sounds of things you seem a tad bitter, are you upset that you bought for the higher price in Canada? And more upset that you thought you would save the taxes only to find out you really didn't save the tax?

Cheers M8

 

[GordNovo]

In regards to the motor being made in Japan, let me ask you a simple question.

Where do all those parts, china moldings, japan motor etc. etc become a tractor?Hmm ya in the USA, so the tractor becomes labelled made in USA, regardless if the motor was made in Japan. The motor is not what is being imported but a full on finished tractor.

All those parts form and become a tractor in the good old USA. So since you are importing a fully built tractor made by John Deere in USA, CBSA wants to no where that unit becomes a tractor and it's clear the tractor is USA made.

JDCAN, being in the import business, have you ever read the instructions on form B232 (Form A)?!?! There are provisions in the instructions for exactly what you state. It is the duty of the exporter, as an agent to the principal (in this case, John Deere USA), to explicitly state the preference criteria used to determine the tariff classification.

As nice as it sounds that it's 'made in the good old USA', your simplistic view of product classification leaves a few too many questions and gaps. When it comes to interpretting product classifications and negotiating with those fine people at the border, the less I need to negotiate the happier (and richer) I will be.

Can you imagine the millions of shipments that show up at the border with no Cert of origin what would happen if canada refused all of them?

They don't refuse them all. They make the importer pay the tariff.

I will tell you right now I had no cert of origin when I imported it, and am willing to beat neither did Dekay.

Well if you both imported via Mutton Power, it doesn't sound like they're covering their customers bases. All it takes is one grumpy CBSA worker and you're on the hook for the duty- plain and simple. Save yourself the hassle and get the dealer in the states to complete a Certificate of Origin. This puts the dealer on the hook, and not the buyer.

My parting words to anyone importing any product from the USA is to do your homework. If you're going to trust someone's opinion, make sure you verify..

....and if you're going to write the tractor off for business purposes, please make sure you get a good accountant. You don't want to get audited!

 

[DeKay]

GoroNovo I import for a living. I can assure you a cert of origin is not needed. It is highly recommended but hardly the end of all ends.

<snip>

I will tell you right now I had no cert of origin when I imported it, and am willing to beat neither did Dekay.

And JDCAN would win the bet. In my case, all of the paperwork was handled between the shipper and the broker with inputs from Mutton on serial numbers and the like. As far as country of origin, all the broker wanted to know was where the FINAL assembly of the tractor was done. Since that was clearly the USA, no problems.

 

[Northland]

Canoetrpr trust me no P.S.T. If you import a car even tho P.S.T will be required you don't pay that at the border. CBSA (Canadian Border Service Agency) does not collect PST.
Cheers.

Great thread DeKay-lot's of good detail.

I have never been asked for a certificate of origin for anything I had bought in the US.

I bought a Kubota B7800 last year at this time in Michigan. CBSA does collect PST...at least they do in Ontario. I drive over to Michigan at least once a week to shop and and pick-up my web based purchases that I have sent to my Michigan address. If I have a declared value of CDN $100 or more they often pull me over and make me pay PST and GST on the purchases.

 

[kude]

I start reading about tax forms and I get dizzy. Anyways.

What you do is go over to the dieselstop.com and hire an American with a Superduty and trailer to transport your tractor. Put a tarp over the tractor.

When at the border and asked your purpose in going to Canada, tell the border guards you're going for molsons and moose hunting. When they look under the tarp and see the tractor, and ask what's the tractor for, just tell them that's what you're going to hunt moose with.

Well it might work...

 

[Northland]

I start reading about tax forms and I get dizzy. Anyways.

What you do is go over to the dieselstop.com and hire an American with a Superduty and trailer to transport your tractor. Put a tarp over the tractor.

When at the border and asked your purpose in going to Canada, tell the border guards you're going for molsons and moose hunting. When they look under the tarp and see the tractor, and ask what's the tractor for, just tell them that's what you're going to hunt moose with.

Well it might work...

good one kude!

 

[canoetrpr]

JDCAN:

Are you located in Ontario?

I'm interested in trying to figure out why some are getting charged PST and others are not. Maybe it is an Ontario vs. Sask. thing?? donno.

 

[used4me]

Hi Canoetrpr,

You don't see JDCAN on here too often any more.

But, maybe this explanation can help.

By the definition from Transport Canada, a tractor is defined as a motor vehicle. As a motor vehicle, it is supposed to be licenced to be driven on the road ( per Transport Canada ).
So the principal goes that as a motor vehicle ( like a car ) when you cross the border you pay only the GST as PST is collected when you licence the vehicle ( car or tractor ).
Since most people do not license their tractors, they never get around to paying the PST.

Now this is a very liberal interpretation of the rules and open to a few interpretations.
If you talk to the PST people ( RST ), they get all caught up in the Ag expemption thing ( so you shouldn't pay ) or if no AG expemption, then you should pay and apply for a refund so that you can pay the PST when you license your vehicle ( fat chance of getting a refund ). And, they are very confusing as their primary purpose is to make sure you pay the tax.

So basically, it is a little grey. Not grey but open to interpretation.

Bring it over yourself on a trailer and Border Services will want you to pay both taxes and you can argue about it later.
Bring it over thru a Customs Broker and it depends on the broker and what interpretation they feel applies at that time.
Some feel no PST and others, after many questions, feel their is PST.
Bit like a crap shoot.
If you push it with a Customs Broker and explain your position, they likely they will go along with it or tell you to go somewhere else.

It is further compounded by some dealers ( used ) now applying the same principals. I have seen a dealer is Eastern Ontario listing tractors and only charging GST and others in the Southwest of the province doing the same.
Just look at Autotrader and you can see what I mean.

Really don't think this helps you alot but it is a true reflection on the convoluted process.

Later

TJ

 

[Northland]

good luck trying to get out of paying PST at the Sault border crossing. The guys charge me tax anytime I spend $100 or more...on anything.

speaking of autotrader used4me did you see the Kioti CK25? good deal me thinks....

Used KIOTI Ontario | Auto Trader Used KIOTI

 

[canoetrpr]

used4me.

Thanks for the thoughts. I believe I know you are referring to. He seems to have a good supply of Kubotas and other equipment at pretty good prices for Canada. Most of the Kubotas seem to be practically brand new.

If I do get around to selling my L3400 and getting another tractor then I'll make sure that my wife finally gets around to it and gets an OFA # for her horse operation - so ultimately it should not make a difference.

Up here (close to the GTA) pretty much everyone will charge you PST unless you have an OFA #.

 

[canoetrpr]

Hmm. the CK25 definately looks like a good deal for a machine with a hoe.

 

[used4me]

Hi All,

Not long ago there was 1 in the Barrie area for $16k or so but no BH.

Thought about it but not for too long as I have a very strict budget according to my CFO with dire consequences for breaking it.

Once in a while you see something here Free Kijiji Canada Classifieds | Free Ads | Petites Annonces Gratuites where you can pick your locale and see what there is in the area.

Later.

TJ

 

[RAILTRAC]

I had a few chuckles over reading this thread about paying PST do you or don't you. All I know is that in Alberta there is no provincal sales tax only GST. But check this out.
P.E.I. issues warning on border shopping

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

I had a few chuckles over reading this thread about paying PST do you or don't you. All I know is that in Alberta there is no provincal sales tax only GST.

Ahhh! The "Alberta Advantage" When so many things are at least 15% - 25% more expensive to start with one needs all the help one can get.

Even the necessities of life, like Tim's, Beer and JD's get caught in the net.

 

[RAILTRAC]

Ahhh! The "Alberta Advantage" When so many things are at least 15% - 25% more expensive to start with one needs all the help one can get.

Even the necessities of life, like Tim's, Beer and JD's get caught in the net.

January 1, 2008 it's only 5% GST to import a JD in Canada but only in Alberta. Then I go to Tim's and see the price is increasing, but I can at least get a 6 pack of Big Rock on Sunday because the liquor stores are no longer run by the province.

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

January 1, 2008 it's only 5% GST to import a JD in Canada but only in Alberta.{quote}


{Quote} Then I go to Tim's and see the price is increasing, but I can at least get a 6 pack of Big Rock on Sunday because the liquor stores are no longer run by the province.

The 5% GST is the part we know. The real tricky question is the CDN$. After hitting a high of $1.10 for a few minutes about a week ago, today's closing "BUY" rate was exactly $1.00. Come January - who knows?

Importing may be the way to go. I don't know where a person can get CDN MSRP for JD except from the JD store. At least JD US$ MSRP pricing is available on the website configurator and there are US dealers that advertise discounted prices on the Internet. I was told that CDN JD stores have had price reductions lately, so it could pay to go in armed with good information and see if they are willilng to move on price. Stoped at a couple of ALTA JD stores this summer and they seemed to have a "get lost - don't bother me" attitude if the word "discount" was mentioned.

This summer before I left home - went to the provincial government owned liqour store and bought 3 x 24 x 473ml tall boy cans for $123.00. A month or so later went to the private Real Canadian Liqour Store in Edmonton and bought 3 x 24 x 355ml cans of Kokanee - couldn't find my brand or tall boys. Paid $106.70. That's 33% more beer from the gov'ment store, also open Sunday, for only 15% more money. Sounds like private ownership = higher prices / less choice.

And just to keep this on subject, my experiments have confirmed the theory that a beer goes flat, when cutting grass, if left sitting in the cupholder of a riding Lawn Tractor.

 

[RAILTRAC]

I'm still chuckling over were this thread was going after making a left turn at Alberta. The 3 things dear to all Canadian's taxes, beer and Tim's.
Try one of those insulated beer holders it will keep it cooler a bit longer. I'm not sure if it will fit the cup holder?

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

Try one of those insulated beer holders it will keep it cooler a bit longer. I'm not sure if it will fit the cup holder?

Keeping it cool isn't the problem. The first time I heard this here on TBN, I thought guys were kidding. All the bouncing around shakes out the CO2 and the result is a cold FLAT beer. I'm hoping Turfs and larger wheels on a 3320 will solve the problem.

 

[GarthH]

As a fellow Cdn it is a very good topic.

We need more people to import things from the US. Eventually the Cdn offices will figure out they need to move. Why move when they are probably banking 50 points between the dealer and the cdn office.

It doesn't make any sense about the border collecting PST. That is why the government has been pushing the HST for rest of the country. Why would any of the provinces do the buy in?

I recently bought a 07 Rav4 from Hertz in the US. Savings was at least 1/3, more than 10K. My import process was pretty easy otherthan we had not thought about a few things at the border so it took a few hours to clear it ourselves.

PST legislations are very specific to each province. I alway say they are a mess since there seems to be more exemptions and rules than anyone can figure out. In Sask the tractor would be exempt if it was used exclusively for a farming business. GST taxes have exemptions if the tractor is over a certain number of horse power; but the others are correct they are recoverable if the machine is to be used for a registrant. Of course on the future sale you need to collect GST.

Again congratulations. Its like winning a lottery or a deal at an auction. It is well worth your effort and the best thing is it looks really good.

Garth

 

[JDCAN]

As a canadian it was a shame I had to buy from USA to get a fair price. It is really John Deere's fault for setting the terms. John Deere needs to do a better job to make the pricing more level.

The other side of things is the USA dollar drop has been done on purpose, it's a way to get the world to pay for the USA war.

USA is the biggest retailer in the world, lowing the USA dollar gets the rest of the world shopping even more from USA retailers/mailorder.

Next time you fellow Canadians want to save a few grand buying from USA figure out if you are happy supporting the USA war efforts, since after all your dollars being spent in th USA are going to paying the war efforts.