Can I tow my Case 580D w a 1-ton pkup, and what trailer would I need?

Alderwoodman · Sep 13, 2013

Hi,

Thank you in advance if any of you have an answer to my dilemma...

I need to be able to drive my Case 580D backhoe around to various demolition sites all over the place. I cannot get a straight answer from any living human at a dealer, because they all want to sell me something.

The Case 580D weighs 13,500#, and I have a 300# ditch witch that needs to run w the hoe, so let's call it a 14,000# load. Many guys around here in WV have claimed that they have moved this type of equipment with a dully 1-ton truck and an appropriate trailer, but again, no straight answers.
I know that I am limited to 26,000# without a CDL, and that is what I'm trying to avoid because of the various costs involved once I need a CDL.

So it all breaks down to this: what is the minimum truck and trailer combo I need to haul this rig all over the country if need be, regardless of whether it is a 1-ton truck or not. If I absolutely need to go get my CDL, I will, but for the jobs I have, I don't need it to run the equipment, and the insurance costs are a totally different animal if I can keep it under the weight limit.

Again, thank you in advance for any worthwhile answers you may proffer...

HappyOne · Sep 13, 2013

I can imagine a trailer capable of hauling 14k would probably weigh 5k. Your dually probably weighs over 8k so it's probably going to push you over 26k in actual weight. Might as well prep for your CDL.

fordmantpw · Sep 13, 2013

You are going to need a pretty stout truck, so a dually is a must. You may look at a Ford F450 as it gives you a bit more towing capability, but allows you to stay in the light duty truck size. If you are planning to tow all over the country like you mentioned, I would definitely go with at least a F450 class vehicle for towing 20k+ lbs.

You will definitely want a goose neck trailer and not a bumper pull for that load as well.

yellowdogsvc · Sep 13, 2013

fordmantpw said:
You are going to need a pretty stout truck, so a dually is a must. You may look at a Ford F450 as it gives you a bit more towing capability, but allows you to stay in the light duty truck size. If you are planning to tow all over the country like you mentioned, I would definitely go with at least a F450 class vehicle for towing 20k+ lbs.

You will definitely want a goose neck trailer and not a bumper pull for that load as well.

This setup would 100% certain be CDL class A. Regardless of actual scale weight (which would still push you over the limit with the numbers given, the GCWR would be over 26k for a legal setup. A dry 1 ton, crew cab F350 dually 4x4 with nothing in the bed weighs 8900 lbs on the scale despite what the book says. Add toolboxes, aux. fuel, tools, driver, and you are probably close to 9500lbs actual weight before the trailer weight and the weight of the machine, chains, and any attachments.

This is a class A setup.

Red Horse · Sep 13, 2013

My two cents , WVa is not Kansas! That says it all. Not only are you climbing hills, but more importantly you are going down!! You have to be sensitive to braking issues.

Real world as someone has said- get your CDL. then look for a clean 10 ton tag with air brakes. As for a truck if I were in your shoes I would be looking for a clean R or U model Mack single axle- preferably with Maxidyne and ideally a 6 speed. Most highway tractors with that engine were 5 speeds and that will work too but the 6 speed would have been used in a dump truck application. . Ton of older 70's/80's former tractors out there. Many have been converted to 6-8 yd. dumps or if you get a tractor, not a big deal to put a body on it.

One other thing-my bet is your business needs will grow and if you go small/light, you will quickly outgrow it.

This and two bucks will get you a medium at Dunkin Donuts- or Sheetz!

RDrancher · Sep 13, 2013

Back in the day, guys in SoCal used to get around the CDL requirement by running a "backhoe rig". It was a 26k GVW, single rear axle flatbed with a dovetail and flip-up ramps. The bed had a built-in rack to rest the bucket above the cab. I don't know if it would work with the weight of today's backhoes, but it would be worth checking out. Our local water company runs one of these trucks, but I don't know what the GVW of the truck is, or whether they're running legal or not.

There's a photo of one on this website Thomas Backhoe and Plumbing Inc.

Peacock · Sep 13, 2013

If I were in your shoes I'd be looking for an older ~1995 F700 with a C-Series Cummins and Eaton 5 sp/Spicer 6 sp. Use it's air brakes and an air braked trailer.

Stout truck with stout drivetrain.

powerstroke444e · Sep 13, 2013

I first would agree that in no matter what you are in cdl territory but its your ticket not mine. 2nd any good gooseneck with dual tandems or super single will handle. As for a truck I would go with a dually 350 or bigger.
I have hauled that much around on my srw f350 and my gooseneck but I have weighed it am comfortable that I am in limits of the truck and trailer.
There are a few companies that are putting 15k axles under gooseneck trailers which will probably be my next trailer as they have bigger brakes and heavier tires and wheels.
And IL is flat other than the river bottoms were I am

Soundguy · Sep 13, 2013

you know .. I've seen that too. flatbed single axles with either atil bed like a used jerr-dan type setup.. but no wrecker tag.. or the flatbed and ramp deal.. and yeah.. I think it's to squeeze by the cdl issue.

I did know a guy that used a smaller setup like this ( rollback ) to go get tractors he was buying. sure made backing up easier..

RDrancher said:
Back in the day, guys in SoCal used to get around the CDL requirement by running a "backhoe rig". It was a 26k GVW, single rear axle flatbed with a dovetail and flip-up ramps. The bed had a built-in rack to rest the bucket above the cab. I don't know if it would work with the weight of today's backhoes, but it would be worth checking out. Our local water company runs one of these trucks, but I don't know what the GVW of the truck is, or whether they're running legal or not.

There's a photo of one on this website Thomas Backhoe and Plumbing Inc.

Soundguy · Sep 13, 2013

powerstroke444e said:
As for a truck I would go with a dually 350 or bigger.

I do't think I'd even go 350.. I'd go 450+

I 'tender' some large trailers at work.. and I can tell a difference when I move them with my 350 vs my 450.. suspension upgrades are a concern too. things like air bags vs overload or helper springs.. etc.