California Drought

[RedNeckGeek]

I'm not disputing your claim but some facts to back up your argument would go a long way in combating the prejudice.

Try clicking the "elephant in the room" link...

 

[turnkey4099]

There is no water shortage, there is a people excess.

Bruce

That pretty well nails it!

 

[Egon]

It's ridiculous to even hint that the water problems in CA are linked to population. Yes, cities are growing because the climate is still good and the systems can still be gamed if you need support. But the elephant in the room is that the majority of water gets flushed out to sea to keep the snail darter happy and the SF delta at the right salinity, and what goes to the cities is just a drop in the bucket. Then throw in the healthy dose of what agriculture needs to feed the world, and you'll have a much clearer picture of the impossible balancing act that's being attempted.

The bigotry and prejudice being displayed in this thread is shameful. :thumbdown:

Of course you have sourced all the volume of water sources and compared them to the final discharge flow of the water courses into the sea??

Colorado might be one River to do a comparison on!

 

[houstonscott]

That pretty well nails it!

Yup, 10 million Californians should be drinking, showering, and flushing somewhere else.

 

[California]

Of course you have sourced all the volume of water sources and compared them to the final discharge flow of the water courses into the sea??

Huh?

Since all the usable water in California goes through dams the volume is known pretty precisely.

The only undammed rivers are minor ones up on the north coast, where there's no practical route up over the Coast Range to the urban or ag users hundreds of miles away who need more. (I think there is one tunnel that does send water over to the Central Valley).

Then downstream in the San Francisco Bay and adjacent inland delta, water quality is closely monitored because the volume arriving is barely adequate to keep salinity low (so the farmlands there aren't destroyed by salinity) and to save what's left of natural aquatic life. The 'trash' small fish are the basis, feedstock, for the larger bass, salmon, etc that are declining drastically.

Winter floodwater in wet years goes to the ocean unused but the rest of the time water volume and quality throughout the state are precisely managed.

 

[downsizingnow48]

Like RNG says, over half of California water use is for environmental purposes, that is, north coast rivers flowing to the sea.

Of the water that is used by people, about 80% is used in agriculture, which provides about 2% of the gross state product. The remaining 20% is for urban places where the other 98% of the gross state product is generated.

Although agriculture is a small part of the state economy, California still produces more food than any other state, much of it fruits, nuts, vegetables. Basically that is exporting water to the rest the country in the form of produce.

The same is true of alfalfa, much of which is exported to China at a higher price than US beef producers can pay. Google "California alfalfa", some interesting facts there.

The one page publication below provides basic facts and links to more detailed information based on a 2010 study which I believe is the most recent comprehensive survey.

Water Use in California (PPIC Publication)

 

[prichard]

I would have thought ag would be a higher revenue number. Any idea what the % of California ag is compared to the rest of the country?

 

[RobertN]

I noticed in some pictures there is a large bridge; kind of reminds me of Rainbow Bridge in Folsom Ca.

Wonder what happened to that bridge? It looks like it is right there at the dam. Is it in the lake, like the old Salmon Falls bridge at Folsom Lake?

I see there was another smaller bridge that was moved too.

Maybe in here somewhere:

Oroville Dam photos

Bruce

 

[bcp]

Blown up.

Bridgehunter.com | Hansell's Bridge

Building of the Oroville Dam, The - Larry R. Matthews - Google Books

Bruce

 

[houstonscott]

I would have thought ag would be a higher revenue number. Any idea what the % of California ag is compared to the rest of the country?

The chart showing AG as 2% of GDP, also shows government as 12%. Government doesn't produce anything so right off there's 12% missing.

 

[lilranch2001]

Lol...

 

[RobertN]

That is interesting. The bridge was not behind the dam, it was right smack dab in the middle of the dam site. They used it thru a large portion of the dam construction, until it was in the way. Then they blew it up and finished the dam.

Thanks for the links

Building of the Oroville Dam, The - Larry R. Matthews - Google Books

Bruce[/QUOTE]

 

[California]

Government doesn't produce anything

Police? Dams? Bridges? Highways? The aqueducts sending all the water to SoCal? Life here would be pretty primitive if all the employees and public works disappeared.

Efficiency could be improved, yes, but the functions of government are worth what it costs us.

 

[downsizingnow48]

The Association of California Water Agencies has over 400 member water agencies that together manage 90% of the water that goes to farms, communities, businesses. The ACWA policy papers give a sense of the huge problems and trade offs that the water districts deal with day by day.

ACWA Policy Principles | Association of California Water Agencies

 

[houstonscott]

Police? Dams? Bridges? Highways? The aqueducts sending all the water to SoCal? Life here would be pretty primitive if all the employees and public works disappeared. Efficiency could be improved, yes, but the functions of government are worth what it costs us.

They don't create wealth, the take from it....

 

[California]

They don't create wealth, the take from it....

Nonsense. Without infrastructure California would be mostly desert (no rainfall generally Easter to Thanksgiving) with occasional biblical-grade floods. There's a reason that old houses in the Central Valley have the occupied space on the second floor, with the ground floor used as people elsewhere use their basement ....

 

[kloudbuster]

Right makes sense. Change the environment to fit more people.

 

[dickfoster]

According to that article a quarter of immigrants already here are undocumented. But the chart above shows Hispanic immigration - both legal and undocumented - has fallen from the large numbers of several years ago. So a wall against Hispanics isn't going to have much effect on demands for water. What we need to solve the water shortage is more people moving from California to other states where the water is. I'm all for that, it's too crowded here.

Well rest assured that Sacramento is doing all it can to run business off along with the taxbase. Of course that will leave you holding the bag to pay for the social programs to service a lot of those illegals. I do hope you're factoring all of that in because I don't think Mexico has any plans now or in the near future to put anything into California's kitty.

 

[dickfoster]

Police? Dams? Bridges? Highways? The aqueducts sending all the water to SoCal? Life here would be pretty primitive if all the employees and public works disappeared.

Efficiency could be improved, yes, but the functions of government are worth what it costs us.

You have to look at the state as a business and the goverment as overhead. Remember you can't have too many chiefs and not enough indians or you're likely to go bust real fast.

 

[turnkey4099]

Nonsense. Without infrastructure California would be mostly desert (no rainfall generally Easter to Thanksgiving) with occasional biblical-grade floods. There's a reason that old houses in the Central Valley have the occupied space on the second floor, with the ground floor used as people elsewhere use their basement ....

The discussion was aobut income producing activities that bring money into the state. Ifrastructure doesn't do that although without it there wouldn't be the income. Samew as building a factoery to produce cars. building the factory does not produce income. Use of it does.