BX25 Full Cage Rollbar

[Artisan]

That looks like a very good plan, you did a nice job fabricating the bracket! Did you find the paint that you need for it? Are you going to leave the canopy in place, and built around it? Anyways, its looks like you have a good design, and good auto cad drawings to represent the project!

Messicks has the paint, I await there reply to a message after hours last Friday.
A tad over 11bux a can. Dealer wanted 15+.

The canopy stays in place w/ the exception of it's UBOLTS are to be replaced
w/ 6" long units. The canopy, ROPS and Rear ANCHOR will all squeeze together
w/ 6-8 Pro Grade UBolts. The UBLOTS are in the mail...should have them soon.
I hope to have the rear anchor done by end of week.
Yes CAD drawings are great. I can reproduce this if I please or if someone wants
one for their tractor. Frankly, I can't wait...it really is coming along NICE! :hyper:

 

[swick1]

When I do this on my 1026r I'm going to have to hinge the front uprights because the quick attach loader frame moves fore and aft when I move the loader. I hope your loader uses pins because this is a problem with installing fops with my h120 loader. It's also hard to hold grade with it because of hysteresis.

 

[Artisan]

Oh yes...I have a plan. The whole thing can come on and off w/o
huge effort. You will be able to remove the FEL or the canopy
and run it alone if you please. yep...I think I eluded to 1" pins
prior. Reminds me, i need to go purchase tose babies now!

 

[Artisan]

Well let me elaborate. NO HINGE. A hinge is a pivioting collapse point.
I designed a pinned connection that is solid. You do not
want a hinge on something like this.

 

[radioman]

After studying your pics - I finally got the idea exactly how to plan to make the roll cage. All I can say is you got it well planned out for ease of removal with the flange. I like the inner stub idea, but wonder if the tubing wall thickness is really necessary? it seems pretty substantial. But what do I know? I just have a few questions though. Have you checked with TSC for those longer ubolts? My TSC has various sizes and one of them look like exactly what you might need. second, I am a little confused on the plug welds. I understand welding inside the slugs, welding outside corners but what are you planning to do? cut slots to weld slugs to tubing? third, from the flange to tubing to corner before going down to upright post, how big of that corner are you planning to make? I was thinking rolling that corner on bender would look nicer and gusseting it a little on inside corner? next question is the flange that I see you have ready. is the canopy going to be able to clear it and I think it might be a tad to big. As you mount/enter the cab or sit in the BH position, is there enough room for your head to lean to side and back up looking as you dig with BH?

 

[Artisan]

After studying your pics - I finally got the idea exactly how to plan to make the roll cage. All I can say is you got it well planned out for ease of removal with the flange. I like the inner stub idea, but wonder if the tubing wall thickness is really necessary? it seems pretty substantial. But what do I know? I just have a few questions though. Have you checked with TSC for those longer ubolts? My TSC has various sizes and one of them look like exactly what you might need. second, I am a little confused on the plug welds. I understand welding inside the slugs, welding outside corners but what are you planning to do? cut slots to weld slugs to tubing? third, from the flange to tubing to corner before going down to upright post, how big of that corner are you planning to make? I was thinking rolling that corner on bender would look nicer and gusseting it a little on inside corner? next question is the flange that I see you have ready. is the canopy going to be able to clear it and I think it might be a tad to big. As you mount/enter the cab or sit in the BH position, is there enough room for your head to lean to side and back up looking as you dig with BH?

Inner wall 'stub' as being necesary? Probably not...I would rather be safer then sorry.
Those rear anchor points will take a lot of stress if the tractor were to roll, so
will the unmolested ROPS.

Have not looked at TSC for UBOLTS, my people make BEAUTIFUL UBOLTS to order.
They come w/ Tall Nuts and Extra Heavy Washers. Custom made at about 7bux each. To
me it is a no brainer. These are not fake UBOLTS w/ a 3/8"-16 nut...that is not a real
UBOLT, or should I say, not what I consider a Professional Grade UBOLT.

Plug welds 'may' get tossed, it would help to marry the outter to the inner.

That 'corner' you speak of is not 100% written in stone yet. I may ditch the A Pillar as I drew
it in my "Rough Sketch" that shows the flanged connection, and go w/ a "U" clear around
the top, then down w/ 'A' Pillars. Those angles will be strongbacked, probably w/ dimple dies and
holes to lighten them up, yes, on the inside corners. ( I am trying to awnser all q's reading along here.)
I have been him-hawing about those front pillars and at what angles I will go with, for days.
There is more going on then meets the eye. There are some other features I have not
spoke of yet as well... :shhh:

No, flange is not to big, it clears the radio box and canopy no problemo.

There is nothing that intrudes on my headspace.

 

[Leejohn]

VIOLA! Ask and ye shall receive! Great minds think alike ehh? Very nice LeeJohn,
good job! So am I right here, you can unlock the front pins and then
Lower the MMM mount w/ controls? You gotta do a YouTube!
Do you have an IPHONE? Easy to do w/ an IPHONE. Very cool!

Thanx for posting the pics. I didn't see this till this morning.





I have another thread going, on second thought I probably should have
keep it here regarding my Enclosure / Cage? that I am building.
Seems a couple children wish me to fail, HERE.

I will move it back into this thread.

No I can't do a youtube. I downloaded a 4min clip and it took 4 1/2 hours so can see why no youtube for me. I can't even get that thing they call high speed. You have it right how it comes off and on. I do put a 4x4 block wood about 6" long under it at the back so it's easer to pull the last pin.
When going on I also set it on the block to make the rear pins ease to hookup. After it is up I move the MMM knob to top and let the 3pt down just a hair then it does not hit the frame. I have made 4 of them for people and the later one have sides on back part and also on the front it turns up. The front has to be a little long and back sides have be shaped right. You well hear that it isn't get enough air for the trans, but that hasn't been the case on the ones with the sides. The gaps is big enough the fan gets enough air.

 

[Loudo]

A very nice job Leejohn:thumbsup:. Could you please send me some measurements so as I can fabricate one for myself as I am always concerned about that fan and the hydro filters being damaged as there are a lot of sticks and rubbish on my block, have destroyed 2 HST fans with sticks breaking them, and it is a PITA replacing them and I never use the MMM because I find it a hassle to attach and remove due to a bad back injury,limited movement,from a tractor accident. Cheers Kerry.

 

[Leejohn]

I'll see if I can find the # that I saved and yes I'll send them to you. Give me a few days i'm right in the middle of a major engine overhaul for a boat that has do be done by the 4th.

 

[Loudo]

Thank you very much Sir.Good luck with the overhaul on the boat engine. Cheers K.

 

[radioman]

Thats good to hear that the issues I thought might be there, you got it covered. Keep on building. :thumbsup:

 

[Artisan]

The port and starboard lower anchors are cut, all parts interlock.
Here is the assembly pre-welding standing on its own. I must say
this part came out exceptionally nice! Pictured is the port side assembly.

 

[swick1]

Artisan, it looks like they are held together with tabs and slots. I caution you that when working with metal this a failure point. You should never design a structural member this way. I think you'll be ok this time but don't do it in the future. It's like nicking a candy bar wrapper to make it easier to open.

It is tempting to do though

 

[Artisan]

Like I said, that pic is "pre" welding as in nothing is welded yet.
Once it is welded it will all be one piece. No tab or slot is bearing.
tabs and slots are simply for assembly alignment purposes alone..
There won't even be need to weld the tabs and slots although I will
have it done to keep water out. Everything will be uniwelded, inside
and out. This will support not just the required 8.5 times pressure
over static weight but I would venture to say 12 times. No problemo's
If the tractor weighs 3600 x 8.5 = 30,600lbs. Thats like 1.5 times the weight
of my work truck. This will support that I am sure when welded up tight.

I "think" i am close to ISO standards for FOPS. Will I be sending my cage
out for certification? Nope...it's a sunshade!

 

[swick1]

Assuming an ideal pinned column buckling case for 1.75" OD tubing with 1.51" ID, the buckling load of a 60" member made from mild steel is 16,860 psi. This translates to a total static load on the end of the tubing pointing straight down of 10,352 pounds force.

This is a rough estimate, as any holes, cracks, or side loading will rapidly decrease the load it can support.

For these calculations, i'd use a factor of safety of two, and assume the rear rops will be able to support the recommended 8.5x static load without deflecting much, so your cage might be able to support a total of 10,352 pounds on the front edge if the supports are completely vertical.

In reality, I wouldn't worry about it. This is a rough number. If you put a cross member between the two tubes that goes over the front hood, like most FOPS do, you've just about doubled their buckling strength.

Here's a good demonstration of what's happening: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Buckledmodel.JPG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckling

As you can see, a fixed joint will have over twice the strength of a pinned one. I know you are using fixed joints, so you could almost say that your failure load is around 20000 lbs

 

[Artisan]

Well....I don't quite understand it but OK!
yes there will be a horizontal bar or few here and there
and maybe a "X" member as well. I have a set of dimple dies
as well so I will make some functional gussets on the bar at
it's bends too. I think i will be A-OK when done and I'll
say it again, I am betting my life on it.

 

[swick1]

The gussets will make it more like a fixed joint than a pinned joint, increasing the working load. I was just confirming your tubing size as "appropriate" in comparison to the other parts of the FOPS.

 

[Artisan]

10-4 THANK YOU!

 

[bcp]

Artisan, it looks like they are held together with tabs and slots.

The tabs don't stick through the slots far enough to twist or fold over to hold it together! That's how all my metal toys were held together back in the good old days.



Bruce

 

[swick1]

The reason you want to avoid tabs and cut out text is because even on a welded object stress concentrations will still be there. The concentration factors for simple shapes are easily found in charts such as these:

http://www.mae.ncsu.edu/courses/mae316/eischen/docs/Appendix_C.pdf

Unfortunately its much harder to estimate with a complex part but I can assure you that you have reduced the number of load cycles to failure even though your parts are welded. Being located near the center of the part and being loaded in compression helps tremendously but I just want you to know it is a bad practice. This part should be fine but you may have problems in the future with other parts that employ this technique. If you must do this place circles centered over the corners so that you don't have any sharp corners. Nature designs skeletons without sharp corners for a reason. I'm not trying to nag, just inform.