BX no start issue

[Code54]

2013 BX25D - 209 hrs, runs perfect normally.

The other night I drove a mile or so down the road and cut an elderly neighbors yard as I normally do, got done and talked with him for a few minutes and started the tractor and drove home without a hint of an issue. I parked the BX in an enclosed bldg and went on my way. Last night I went over to get the BX out and put the rototiller on and turned the key - no start, no crank. I can hear a clink and then (I presume) the fuel pump kicking in. When the key is shut off I get that loud clank it always does (guessing a relay maybe) All light are on and even checked the head lights - nice and bright, appears full power. I sort of think it maybe a safety switch somewhere as it sounds like everything is kicking in but just no cranking.

Things I done so far:
Checked the fuel (no idea why, but what the check)
Moved PTO back and forth several times and tried to crank machine several times
Moved HST back and forth several times and tried to crank machine several times
Moved High low selector to all positions several times back and forth several times and tried to crank machine several times - just in case
Tried to crank with brake on and off.
Lifted the seat and check seat switches, cleaned them, worked the buttons by hand several times and tried to crank machine several times
Cleaned HST switch and worked the button by hand several times and tried to crank machine several times
Cleaned PTO switch and worked the buttons by hand several times and tried to crank machine several times
Checked the fuse panel and EACH fuse under the black grill near the radiator
Checked and cleaned 50 amp plastic fuse on the right side of the machine
Towed the machine to my shop and figured I would turn the key and see what happened - same as before, all lights on, hear the fuel pump kick in and nothing more.

So now I am thinking a switch may have failed but am unsure how to check them. I am GUESSING that I need to do a continuity check or something?? What result am I looking for and what is the best way to check this?

Am I missing something (really hope some one will say "Hey Dummy - you forgot XXXXXX" and that is it and it starts. I also have fear that a wire broke or a mouse or something got into something and ate a harness. I looked quickly but it was getting dark and didn't notice anything. In some ways I am hoping I am overthinking this and just having a brain fart and forgetting something stupid (sort of the can't see the mistake that is right in front of you idea.)
THANKS in advance.

 

[Henro]

The following thread addresses the dreaded click, click problem that seems to be common to the BX tractors.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...405-bx2200-intermittant-ignition-failure.html

This may be your issue. I suffered with it for a couple years before installing the fix, a relay wired into the circuit between the safety contacts and the starter solenoid.

There are other threads that address this same issue. I believe the solution was originally posted by Kubmech years ago.

Sounds like this could be your issue. My BX has started perfectly without fail since I made the modification.

Hope this helps!

Bill

 

[ultrarunner]

It has to be a safety interlock... if battery and starter are good.

I've had a few issues from debris building up to the point where switches were damaged or brackets bent... slogging through mud.

 

[Code54]

Thanks Guys - I like the idea of getting the new relay, even if it is not the problem it would be great "insurance."

I keeping thinking a safety switch - I was thinking of bypassing each one if I can figure it out how to do it until I find the problem (or lack of)

 

[zoltanthegypsy]

Did you try depressing the PTO switch while cranking? Maybe by putting something between the lever and the switch?

When this happened to my '24 it was the switch not quite making contact with the lever. The switch can be repositioned - and that fixed the issue.

Don't know if the '24 and '25 are the same. Just sayin'

Z.

 

[AStanton]

I had a similar situation on my BX-25. It would run fine, then I would shut it off and it wouldn't start. A mechanic at the Kubota dealer adjusted one of the seat safety switches with a screw driver. It has been working fine ever since.

 

[wjmst]

Something similar just happened to me recently, the battery was bad. Got a new one at walmart for $50 and all is well now.

 

[radioman]

for me -- if my bx wont start - i have to pull back on the pto lever and hold it till it starts. it needs adjusting. again. if you can hear clicking of fuel pump - you know your key works fine. on the BX's it almost always one of the safety switches i know you checked your safety switches - but a strong possibility is one of them is not fully depressed due to adjustment.
try this -- lift the seat so it up in the air ready to turn around in bh mode. if it starts - you know one of 2 seat switches is causing the issue. if not. check the left side where pto lever is and check to see if switch can be adjusted to be even closer. if this doesnt work - check the hst switch under the tractor. one time i had a stick in there and it looked centered but the stick was preventing me to start it. get your small spring clamp and clamp it shut or use something to hold it closed.

if the safety switches test doesnt work - i would say possible ground or starting wire is the issue to the starter - but these things are so reliable i wouldnt touch it. i would just short the two posts the starting post and power post on starter just to see if the starter kicked in. if it does you know its not your starter -- it your wiring somewhere for safety switches.

 

[Code54]

Update -
Cleaned each switch - nothing jammed in it. Pushed them in all the way (other than HST) still no start
Worked the HST switch and cleaned it, tried it in every possible direction and spot - nothing.
Tried a different ground to the starter - nope (bummer)
The only thing I have not done is by pass the switches as I am not sure how to do this (or test the switch)
I also did not switch the relay out as I am not sure where it is and I can't seem to find the referenced one locally (have to order it)
Any other thoughts are appreciated - Thanks for the help so far!

 

[Code54]

Another update - was looking at the PTO switch
There is two YELLOW wires on the left that have power , two black (think with a strip) on the right that do not have power. When the switch is push NOTHING changes - same ones have power other still does not? Can someone tell me if this supposed to be this way? I just used a 12v test light as you can leave the switch hooked up and touch the wires in the harness. Seems logical that something should change when the switch is pushed in? Can someone check theres and let me know if this happens on a working switch (would really appreciate it) Only other thought is when the switch is pushed it makes the ground on the black wires maybe???
Did a little test on my MX5100 - if I don't push the clutch (thus having a safety switch stopping the tractor from starting) it is exactly the same as the BX so again makes me think safety switch but hey, I have been wrong before......

 

[am122]

The HST switch only moves a little to be out of adjustment, Try about 3 layers of duck tape between switch and rod to see if it works for you, It did for me.

 

[Henro]

Hi again,

The relay mentioned above is an addition and does not exist in your tractor at the moment, so you will not find it. If you check that thread referenced above you will find a mention of the place where I bought my low-voltage relay. It might be called Hartville tools or something similar.

But before you buy anything you probably do want to verify that the problem you're having IS with contacts in the safety circuit. I'm in Japan right now and cannot look at my tractor or my workshop manual. But if you look at your starter, I think you will see a small wire going to the starter solenoid. If there is only one wire going to the starter solenoid, then if you applied voltage from your battery to the terminal that wire goes to, it should activate the starter.

It would probably be best to have a switch in the wire between the battery terminal and the starter solenoid terminal, then you could apply and immediately remove voltage, and not have to deal with the spark you would likely get if you touched the wire directly to the starter solenoid terminal.

If you do this, you don't even have to start the engine, you only have to hear the starter start to turn it over to prove that your issues in the safety circuit contacts.

If you do try this, make sure the tractor is in neutral and that the parking brake is firmly set, just to be on the safe side.

Checking voltage with a test lamp can be confusing sometimes because there may be some voltage there, but not enough to cause the lamp to light. A voltmeter would be a better choice if you had one, but perhaps you don't.

I remember other threads here on TBN that address this issue and have specifics about the interposing relay, including part numbers and possible sources. The one I got was for John Deere and required me to splice a couple wires. I have read there is one specific for Kubota that is plug and play, but that was not the one I used. Perhaps someone will read this read and give you specific details.

Best thing you can do at this point is confirm that the problem is in the safety circuit contacts. Are you getting the "click click" sound when you try to start the engine? If so chances are pretty good that It is voltage drop within the safety circuit that's your problem. If there is no click click sound, then the problem could still be in the safety circuit, but perhaps a broken wire or a failed contact. If this is the case then the relay mentioned would not fix your problem.

Hope this helps!

 

[Code54]

Thanks Henro!
I did check to see if the little wire on the starter received voltage but it did not but I can jump it tomorrow and see what happens.
I see your point on the test light, I do have a volt meter but to be honest it was over the house and I was in the middle of working on it so I didn't walk over and grab it - I will!

Seeing you are in Japan, if you happen to see Mr Kubota, ask him his thoughts for me.... LOL

 

[Code54]

Update - Thanks again Henro
I checked everything again and nothing changed.
I washed the machine to get everything clean and easier to work on then jumped the starter and she fired right up. Hooked up my tiller and get that job done at least.
I do get the fuel pump activating and when I shut the key off I get the normal delay and then that "clunk" of the fuel system reseting
At the starter I am getting 0 on the small wire when I hit the key so no electric is making it that far.
Seems it has to be a safety switch. Pretty sure it is not related tot he seat (that has been bypassed since new and I even hooked it back up and had no change.
For some reason I am thinking that PTO switch but still not sure.
I also ordered the workshop manual today (also figured out my BX is a few months out of warranty - was only 2 years when I bought mine - bummer)
If anyone has an electrical diagram for a BX25 they could post or send me it would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Code54]

Just went online and ordered 3 new safety switches - $38 shipped.
Figured it is a LOT cheaper than taking it to the dealer (if I am right) if not I guess I am out $38 bucks. Seems like a good gamble. I will let you know what happens when they come in later this week!

 

[dragoneggs]

following along... sounds like you are on the right track now, Code.

 

[Code54]

I sure hope so! Looked a little funny with the sides off the tractor today running around tilling the yard. I am adding a standby generator to the house so I trenched the yard to run gas and the feed lines so I had big clumps of dry clay laying all over the place and wanted to till then rake it before it rains and I have a royal mess. Just glad I had the mini to dig with since the BX decided to try going belly up! Oh well, first minor issue at least it is not the motor or pumps!

 

[dragoneggs]

I sure hope so! Looked a little funny with the sides off the tractor today running around tilling the yard. I am adding a standby generator to the house so I trenched the yard to run gas and the feed lines so I had big clumps of dry clay laying all over the place and wanted to till then rake it before it rains and I have a royal mess. Just glad I had the mini to dig with since the BX decided to try going belly up! Oh well, first minor issue at least it is not the motor or pumps!

Yeah... sounds like a cheap and easy fix once you find the buggar!!!

 

[Henro]

While we are waiting for Code54's switches to arrive, I have a question.

Are all the limit switches exposed on the tractor for easy replacement? I was of the understanding that at least a couple of them were internal and difficult to physically access. At least on my BX2200. So I assumed that using the added low voltage ready was the easiest fix. Maybe not? (I should have looked more closely)

I am away from my tractor for another ten days so at the moment I cannot check myself.

By the way, we were at a friend's house a couple days ago for lunch and a visit, and he introduces us to another friend he invited, and wouldn't you know the guy's name turns out to be Kubota! Did not seem to have any interest in tractors though...:thumbdown:

 

[Code54]

Well I can't say they are "easy" to get to. The seat ones are easy, PTO not too too bad, the HST is not looking like a fun project. Thinking I am going to pop the connection off the switch and hook the new one up without installing it on the tractor to see which one is bad (just hold the button in, etc to test)

Bummer on Mr Kubota - that could have been a pretty neat meeting.....