BX 2200 Transmission problems

wh500special · Sep 18, 2003

I have been reading these forums for the past two years or so and have learned a lot about different tractors. Now, I have a question for those who may have been in a similar situation.

In the spring of 2002 my dad (who doesn’t surf the web) bought a new Kubota BX 2200 with loader and 60” mower. It has proven to be a good replacement for his ’48 Ford 8N for maintaining his rolling 5 acres of grass and the rest of his property. Since that time, the tractor has accumulated approximately 100 hours of mixed loader and mowing work and has never missed a beat (dealer serviced at 50 hours).

Until two weeks ago.

My dad was finishing up his mowing at the bottom of a hill and noticed that when he turned the tractor up hill the engine bogged slightly and the engine noise changed. He shut everything down as quickly as he could and looked the tractor over. When he removed his sunglasses he saw the stripe of oil across the lawn everywhere he had been and the rear of the tractor was covered with grass and oil. Pulling the transmission dipstick revealed no fluid.

With the mess on the back of the tractor, he couldn’t immediately find the leak but didn’t think any drain plugs were missing and nothing was obviously the source (by now the oil had stopped dripping because the supply was exhausted). So he abandoned the tractor at the bottom of the hill and called the dealer who picked it up two days later.

Today he called the dealer and they had finally torn into the tractor to find out what had happened. Evidently a shift fork (presumably from the high/low selector) broke off in the transmission and became trapped between the ring gear and the case. Not being compressable, the case was broken as were possibly the teeth on the gears.

Kubota has decided this was a manufacturing defect and has elected to have the dealer remove the transmission and swap the good parts into a new unit with the required replacement parts. Easy enough. The concern we have is that the possible starvation of oil to the hydrostatic and hydraulic pumps may have shortened their life somewhat. If they die under warranty it is no big deal, but if 5 years down the line excessive internal leakage due to valve plate wear leads to a hydro failure it will surely be a big ticket item to repair or replace.

The tractor never did actually stop moving before he shut it down, so perhaps the pump never sucked air. But the engine did behave differently signifying to dad that something just wasn’t right and perhaps the pumps were struggling.

So, I am asking for opinions on what collateral damage may have occurred and if anyone has any suggestions on what to do next. The dealer is being very cooperative. Kubota is honoring their warranty. Is there anything else of which to be concerned for the future?

Thanks for any and all responses. Offline replies are welcomed as well; lubaks at juno dot com.

Thanks again,

Steve

Junkman · Sep 18, 2003

my feeling is that you should push the dealer to get a complete new assembly and install that. If they only replace the parts that in their determination that they feel need replacing, you have no idea how badly stressed the rest of them are or how well the repair will hold up in the future. It is only as good as the mechanic doing the work and the quality of the existing and new parts. I know that Kubota will not do a second repair after the machine is out of warranty. Had this been the engine, would you have allowed them to replace just one piston if that had failed? I know that I wouldn't because overheating done today will take life from the overall equipment in the long run. If the useful service life of that transmission is 5000 hours, then I would say that repairing it using both new and old parts that the service life will be 2500 hours or half. Overheating kills the service life for sure and this one overheated for sure.

One thing that you could do is to ask the dealer what the normal useful life expectancy of the transmission is. What ever his answer is........ say 5000 hours, ask him to get a written statement from Kubota saying that they will repair or replace the transmission if it fails before the 5000 hours. I know that they won't do it, but it will help prove the point. You must get on this issue immediately, because once the replacement parts start to arrive, they will be less inclined to do a complete replacement. Your dealer should fight for you because you are his customer. He should represent you first and Kubota second as the selling dealer. If necessary, remind him that his reputation is on the line and that if you are not happy, you will be telling everyone that you know. If you are satisfied, you will be praising him to everyone you know.
The one bad part of this whole event is that the repair or replacement is only going to be warrantied for the balance of the tractor warranty. Had this happened on the last day of the warranty, you would get it repaired, but the warranty on the repair would be very short.

jcollins · Sep 18, 2003

One thing to remember that on a major item like this the dealer has to get approval from Kubota to replace those pumps. If he says he can't do it then ask him for the number of the central office in your area. Call and ask for the service department and talk to them. Sometimes manufactures will the the dealer no but if the customer calls they will SOMETIMES give in and give you what you want. Just a thought.

Junkman · Sep 18, 2003

One final thought came to mind...... if they tell you that it will be just as good as new, then tell them to take it back and rebuild it and install it in another tractor. Be emphatic that you don't want it repaired, but replaced. You bought a new tractor for this reason.

JerryG · Sep 19, 2003

wh500sspecial,
As soon as your dad stopped the tractor, there shouldn't be ANY collateral damage. I would let them fix it and get the tractor back to your dad. This is not a situation where someone kelp running a pump out of oil time and time again. he shut it off as soon as the sound of the pump was noticed.

r0GuE · Sep 19, 2003

I wish you luck, bt I doubt you'll get to far in this matter. I doubt anything was hurt either, but what a great time to trade up to a BX22. I'd ask for invoice pricing on the new one (for your trouble). /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

wh500special · Sep 19, 2003

Thank you all for the replies. I am visiting Dad this weekend and hope to have time to visit the dealer as well to “view the wreckage” and find out if there is anything more to the story that I am missing. I do appreciate the input and will pass along to dad that he needs to speak with the Kubota rep.

My gut feeling on this matter of collateral damage (to the hydro) is that probably nothing happened of significance since the tractor never stopped moving before dad detected the problem. I think (don’t know) that if the pump cavitated the motion of the tractor may have halted. Not sure.

My concerns arise from some experience I have from older garden tractors with worn hydrostatic components. An amazingly small amount of wear contributes greatly to internal leakage around the piston pump and performance loss.

I will check what the expected service life is and do what we can to get anything and everything in writing.

To date, this dealer has been very cooperative and professional on all of our equipment they have ever sold (BX) or serviced (Ford 8N, Ford 1700, BX 2200, and JD 272 mower). I forgot to mention that this occurred in Southern Illinois while I live in Northern Indiana. Since this dealer has a good reputation with us and most other folks with whom we have spoken, and I anticipate continued good service from this dealer, I guess it is appropriate to share their identity: Lynn Tractor of Alton, IL. They’ve been in business as a Ford dealer for years and have always been professional, courteous, thorough, and prompt. Kubota’s cooperation with them, even in light of recent events, is to us unknown. We will push where we can but will allow the dealer to work through their proper channels first.

I view this whole transmission failure as just a fluke occurrence. Everything breaks. Thankfully it happened under warranty. Hopefully all is resolved the best way possible.

Thanks again,

Steve

TresCrows · Sep 20, 2003

In my opinion, not being a tractor mechanic but still I am a mechanic among other things I doubt the damage was extended to the pumps and remaining transmission parts. The failure was catostrophic and so there would have been very little time the pump could have run without oil and in any case it would not have been without lubrication. There should be no damage to that unit. It is not like you ran it without oil for a long period of time. I think you will be fine. J

ronjhall · Sep 20, 2003

Steve
Your dad’s tractor will be under warranty until spring of 2005. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif That should give him some good feelings about possible future problems.