Buying vs. Hiring

[boggen]

a tractor with a FEL (Front end loader), it does not have to be a TLB (tractor loader backhoe). the FEL along with some 3pt hitch stuff. can do a lot. more so if FEL is strong enough to handle unloading pallets of lumber off of a delivery truck, to other. granted, i have paid for a forklift with delivery before, due to i know i would not be there, along with forklift unit be able to position a couple things better than i could with tractor (way to tight of a space to get into.

septic tank, and leach fields, while they look simple and for most part are fairly simple. if ya goof it up and do not know how to deal with inspectors, you could in some either heavy fines or tear up and redo thing, costing you more cash. the gravel bed and how ya layer etc... and slops of pipes can be critical for long life of a leach field. and over all drainage of your own waste...

digging a basement :/ a extend a hoe, with enough reach to get down to near wanted grade makes things so much better. and used ones alone are rather costly!

i would say get yourself a "maintenance tractor" or rather general up keep tractor. vs a larger piece of machinery, something to deal with grading driveway, moving some snow, shaping the yard / landscaping it, to get it ready for grass, back filling around basement walls once basement walls are in, rotatory cutter (for tall weeds),

=============
DIY is awesome, but it really helps to have someone around that knows there stuff, to give ya pointers and help ya through things. granted a portion is just hoping on the machinery and getting experience.

 

[boggen]

to note it.... i went and got a TLB industrial size ford 555c TLB, i think 80hp engine on it. there stuff on farm that needed to be dealt with, and smaller tractor would never have enough power to get the stuff done. once the big stuff is out of the way, will end up selling this tractor. for a smaller all purprose / general upkeep tractor. granted not building a house... but putting in ditches, putting in culverts, running new electrical, gas, water, dealing with some larger stumps, moving a major amount of dirt, to have a better road going back into property vs ugly at moment.

the machine is just to big, and i am not about to invest in a bunch of little add-ons for it. (bolt on tooth bar, different size backhoe buckets, etc...) it doesn't give a professional look by itself. so the farm is looking crummy in a few different areas. i am just going to wait till selling this big machine for an all purpose smaller tractor and get all the extra add-ons for the smaller unit.

though most likely smaller unit will need to have a backhoe... kinda spoiled myself now with this larger TLB.

 

[coobie1]

Hello! The wife and I plan on building a home on our 140 acre parcel in Upstate SC by this time next year. My question is this- Is it wiser to hire professionals to clear a heavily wooded (2) acre home site, dig the septic, and clear the old log road to the site, or buy a $20K backhoe and, along with my Uncle's Dozer, do this work myself? Time is not the issue right now, but I could use that $20K towards the down payment on the mortgage or for the other expenses that come with a new home.

Am I really saving money by attempting this work myself with a tool I know I'll need to maintain the land, or just wait until the home is up, then look for toys? Thanks, TBN.

IMHO,hire it done a lot less grief.

 

[dave1949]

Chevy, basically I'm just wondering/whining out loud:laughing:. I want a backhoe, and know that this piece of equipment can not only be used to minimize what a professional will charge me to clear the land, but that it's future use will prove to be invaluable as well.

However, if I pay cash for the hoe, that then leaves less money in savings for down payments on the mortgage. The cost of that professional's work will be rolled into the construction loan.

After listening to you guys, the next logical step is to at least see what local pro's will charge to clear the acreage, grade, and dig a walk out basement foundation. If the quote is $6K, then a $20K purchase isn't the wisest decision at this time. Am I confusing the issue?

I don't think you are confusing the issue. I doubt you would get two acres cleared, graded and basement dug for $6K, that sounds low unless you have very easy terrain to work with.

You could compromise. Hire out the septic, basement, basic driveway work and minimum clearing needed for the build. Then after you have your house built and know what that cost for sure, then buy a machine to finish the clearing, driveway, etc. That would cover the basic necessities and minimize your hire-outs without fearing you may put yourself in a pinch for the house. House project budgets can easily exceed what you think going in.

 

[bumperm]

As Dirty Harry (no, not Harry Reid, the Clint Eastwood one) once said, "A man's got to know his limitations". So it really depends on you. Me? I don't like paying someone to do something I know I could do, and would enjoy doing, if I had the right tools. if I think I'll have use for the tool/s later, I have a strong tendency to buy 'em.

I'd even put in the septic system myself, talk to the building dept, find out what's needed and if an owner/builder can do it legally. If need be, have a professional draw the plans. The building inspector will probably make sure you don't screw it up :c)

 

[Clay45]

Either way you go, before its all said and done you may wish you'd done the other. BTW, you already have a well in?

 

[USAFpj]

Sure don't, Clay. That's another activity that needs to be done, but knew that, along with the septic, should be left to experts.

Thanks for the intel on this subject, gents! I look forward to getting those estimates from my local good ol' boys and making a decision. Might just end up getting the hoe AND hiring a lot of the work out:laughing:.

 

[forestcreature1]

Side note - check with the local/state laws on the septic part. Sometimes they require licensed people for the earth work.
[I got the forest creature name from the usaf, 3 years, 6 months, 14 days, 8 hours in the desert. Their way of stating how well I fit in the desert]
On the other paw - I was great at tracking, so they decided I should also do SAR (the ground version of your gig)

Congrats btw - PJ school is anything but easy.

 

[paulfun9]

For my septic they required a certified engineer to draw up the plans. What a waste of money as the only difference between mine and his was the fancy paper his were drawn on.

 

[mddorange]

Congrats on your new land and house to-be. Please keep us informed on your progress. Are you from South Carolina? Thanks for your sacrifice. When were you in?

 

[USAFpj]

I was born in Myrtle Beach when my Dad was stationed there in the early 70's as a weapons mechanic. Our entire family have always lived near Greenville, though. I just recently retired after 21 years, joining in 93.

Thanks to my Dad and Grandparents for having the vision back in the 50's and 70's to accumulate land; I would never be able to afford the taxes, much less the land, if it hadn't been for them.

I will definitely keep you guys abreast of my plans here in the short future!

 

[mddorange]

My son was born at Shaw AFB, Sumter, SC, in 1974. I worked with several people from Myrtle Beach back then. We would go TDY together. Wonder if I knew your Father?

 

[tjkadar]

I still live near Shaw AFB.

PJ - get a Timber guy to cruise your land. He will be able to determine the value of your trees and advise you on options. He will work for a percentage of the harvest, but he will also be able to get you top dollar. It might turn out that you can do a selective harvest, or perhaps clearcut a few acres to offset the land clearing costs. It might be worth harvesting 5 to 20 acres at the home site.

A good Timber guy will know what crews in your area do the best jobs with the least amount of impact on your property.

With a heavily wooded site, you're going to get a better, quicker, faster clearing with a trackhoe and dozer more than with a backhoe. A decent sized trackhoe can pop stumps in seconds to minutes while you'll be fighting with them for hours on a backhoe. A decent operator can clear you 2 acres in a day or two. If you don't mind wind-rowing or disposing of stumps, limbs, etc. somewhere on your property, you can save some money. Burn piles can also be an option.

Septic system - that will have to be hired out. DHEC requires an installer to be licensed. Additionally, you're going to need a perk test and a permit for your system. That will cost $150. If you really want to do the septic system yourself, you need to pass an exam testing your knowledge of Regulation 61-56 and pay a $100 fee for license to construct.

Think long and hard about a backhoe and what jobs you're looking at doing. A mini-excavator might be a better option.

 

[batwing]

I agree with hiring it out!!
Ron

 

[USAFpj]

After listening to everyone's input, allow me to shift fire a bit to a different topic- "Digging basement foundations for amateurs". The reason I ask is this: The general plan comes down to (2) choices- clear what I can with what I currently have available (Stihl saw, 8N, Case rubber tire FEL, JD Dozer, dumptruck) OR, just hire out the entire project, as around here, the septic guy is also the grading, clearing, basement foundation guy as well! I hear ya on the timber guy- Dad is saying that he would prefer a few more years before we go that route, as he has the land on a rotational schedule.

Everyone has given great advice, and I feel like I have some great info to work with. Your still right in the fact that I need to get my excavation guy out here to give me a quote as well; never know when I have to stop where I'm at, and head back overseas.

 

[dave1949]

This is a tough call if you may have to leave and go overseas or far enough away you can't get home often. Would you be PCS'ing or just TD?

I wouldn't want to open a foundation hole and have it set idle, it would probably have some erosion that would need to be dug out. I also wouldn't want to pour a foundation and not cover it with a building. That may be different for you if you don't get deep winter frost penetration. Neither of those is a game stopper, just a preference.

Whatever happens, you will lose nothing by getting started on the clearing with what you have now. A chainsaw, tractor and dozer should take you a long ways. You have all the tools now that people had 40-50 years ago and they managed.

 

[USAFpj]

Whatever happens, you will lose nothing by getting started on the clearing with what you have now

The experience, knowledge, and fun that I'll gain will be invaluable! However, to clear a 2 acre portion of 4in-12in hardwood/pines, are you really saving any money in comparison to hiring a guy who will not only correctly clear the area, but do the rough grade, septic, foundation excavation??

 

[dave1949]

The experience, knowledge, and fun that I'll gain will be invaluable! However, to clear a 2 acre portion of 4in-12in hardwood/pines, are you really saving any money in comparison to hiring a guy who will not only correctly clear the area, but do the rough grade, septic, foundation excavation??

Short answer: Yes. You will save money by taking working hours out of the job. "Dirt" contractors (for lack of a better term ) base their fees on how long a job will take along with what materials are going into the job. Anything you do that shortens the job time saves fees as long as what you do isn't creating a mess. :laughing:

Some things you need to decide, and maybe the first thing a contractor will ask you:
1) What will you do with the trees? Firewood. Chip the small stuff on site. Burn. Sell some decent logs. Whatever.
2) What will you do with the stumps? Pick an accessible site on your property for stump dump maybe?
3) Are you leaving any shade trees? The more you leave and the closer together they are, the longer it takes to work around them and some may die anyways from root compaction and exposure.

If you make piles of stumps that the contractor can load into a dump truck using an excavator, that will go fast and save you money. If you can get them loaded into your dump truck and haul them off, that will save even more.

4" - 12" mixed soft and hardwood stumps should not be a big challenge for a bulldozer. You could probably push the larger trees over first then cut the tree off the stump with the chainsaw before you get the trunk all dirty. Dirty logs are saw chain killers, you will be forever sharpening the saw chain.

If tree work is new to you, then start with small stuff and get some practice. Wear ear & eye protection and chaps when cutting and a hardhat all day. Pushing over trees with machines can be very dangerous. There are dead limbs that can fall on you. Trees under stress don't always do what you expect, they can split, shatter and twist in odd ways, pull other trees down, etc. A 12" tree trunk can be made to act like a very powerful and deadly spring if you get one or both ends of it trapped and start pushing on it. If things aren't going smooth and easy you are probably doing something you shouldn't be.

Grading difficulty depends on the site. Mostly you want to manage water run-off directing it away from the house and driveway. Now is the time to plan ahead for any future buildings on the two acre clearing so the basic dirt prep is done for those at the same time.

 

[USAFpj]

Thought I'd give an update on our land clearing job: I've been overseas for a bit, but will have (45)days off real soon. My GC gave a quick estimate for the following: $3,800 for clearing/grading driveway, no gravel, to home site (about 300yds). And $2,450 for clearing trees/brush from the (1) acre home site. The trees are about 25 Virginia Pine and Yellow Poplar, most of which are less than 12in diameter. My Uncle's JD350 crawler with clamshell loader has been offered for just the cost of fuel, and sits about 2min away from my property. I've attached a pic of the property, and I think I'm going to do it! I plan on reaching high, knocking them down, cutting off the stumps, then using the clamshell, piling the logs and stumps separately. I figure worst case, my GC charges the same amount just to fix my mistakes:laughing:

 

[Looking4new]

If you are going to clear it yourself, you should consider making a stump fence with the stumps. That is my 2 cents worth.