Buying Decision....

[rfengr]

Hi Everyone,

I am rather new to this world of tractors, but I have given up trying to maintain my 3+ acres with a garden tractor! Hence, in exactly 1 week I will be ordering a Jinma with FEL and Backhoe. In fact, I am driving from Seattle to Oregon next Thursday for the transaction.

I already have a self powered rough cut mower (swisher) and will also be looking into a 3-point post hole digger with 12" auger, 4' Box Blade, 4' Landscape rake, Carry-All fork, and thumb for the Backhoe.

Now... the dilemma! I have narrowed it down to either a Jinma 284 or a 354. Now, I understand the 354 is around 6" longer, 6" wider, a little taller, 7HP more powerful, and about 400lbs heavier. Ok.. its the 284 on stearoids with a slightly bigger engine.

I will be clearing land, using the FEL and box blade a lot. Moving debris to burning piles with the backhoe/thumb. Digging the occasional ditch or post hole, and a lot of brush cutting. Throw in a little stump removal. The land is mostly a gentle slope, with a few flat areas. Once I get the land into shape, I would like have a small (40' x 60') garden which I will want to till each year. In other words, lots of use for a few months, then very occasional use for the rest of the tractors life.

Question 1: Will I even notice the power difference?

Question 2: Is the 354 that much more stable on hills than the 284 due to its wheelbase and width?

Question 3: THE BIG ISSUE. Shuttle shift or manual?
So what exactly does the shuttle shift accomplish? I have read that its great (or better) for use with a FEL... but nobody elaborates as to why! Can someone explain the difference in actual operation when using shuttle shift vs manual with a FEL?

I have also read that I definately want a creeper for tilling. but I wont be tilling very much or often. What about for the Box blade... again not used often.

Any help/opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You All! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[SPIKER]

Hi RFENGR:
firdst off for 3 acres a 284 is more and MORE than enough. unless you are planning on digging out 4' stumps with it...


as for attachments. it the (284) will handel a 6' rock rake and a 6' box blade easly. for the FEL the standard ZL20 should be more than enough with the gulian backhoe (jw03) is standard fare for the Jinmas in the 254/284 range (BTW a 254 is also probably plenty big for you're land and I would think about a 224 iwht 5' impliments. the tractors are quite big, compairable to a full sized car in lenght with the FEL on and as wide as an average compact car is inside.

I would also think about a 5' finish mower though I would get KK or after market not the imported as there are some wheel & blade & belt problems though the decking of the imports are extra heavy. if you can re-hash a few bugs they are pretty indestructable. I've got a list of stuff I own with a Jinma 284, 6' box blade, JW03 hoe, 5' import RFM, 46" tiller (should be 54+" for the 284 though) (what I want yet, 6'rock rake, 6' snow blade, 6" chipper & 12" PHD.)

as for creeper vs shuttle shift. if you plan on tilling a garden EVER get the creeper same for heavy FEL useage when MOVING items. the Shuttle is great for digging & backing forwards as you switch between forwards & revers with a toss of the dash mounted lever. I haven't used one of those yet so I can't comment on how well the shuttle shift works. most say for lots of light duty FEL work they are indespensable... theshuttle sihfts are only 2 yrs old now so most of the buggs SHOULD be getting worked out of them though I haven't really heard of any major problems with em.



anyhow hope that helps.
MarkM

 

[rfengr]

Thanks Mark,

That helps a little. One thing I forgot to mention is the speed issue. With the manual/creeper, it slows to a specified .4 mi/hr. The 354 without the creeper, has its slowest speed of 1.1mi.hr. I suppose the extra torque on the 354 would help that issue when using, say, a box blade... but I am not sure.

Ok, I understand that shuttle lets you go forward and back with the flip of a lever. How much extra work is it really to shift a manual into a reverse gear? Keep in mind that I have never shifted one of these yet?

Thanks again /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[bruce1966us]

Go see Ray in Hoquiam, Wa www.coldwatertractors.com

 

[bruce1966us]

Keep in mind with the shuttle you still have to stop between changes.

 

[RonMar]

I was just recently making this same decision IRT Shuttle shift. IF I was going to use the tractor mainly as a loader, I would get it as I believe it would be a timesaver. As you run the bucket into the material you are moving and lift/tilt the bucket to fill it with your right hand, you depress the clutch and move your left hand out and down slightly from the steering wheel to shift the lever from forward to reverse, all the while keeping your attention on lifting the bucket into the carry position. Since the shuttle shift only controls forward/reverse for whatever gear you have selected, you will back out at the same speed that you went in. Without shuttle shift, your left hand would go down between your legs to the main shift lever and move it out of whatever gear you ran forward in and move it into reverse. This may or may not require that you take your eyes off the bucket you are raising to find the lever or get it into gear. In my past experience, this is the only way I have ever done it and like everything else, once you do it for a while you get pretty good at it and don't even have to think about it. The only real drawback is that the reverse ratio is different(lower) from all the forward ratios so you will back out at a different speed. If you ran into the pile in 3rd gear, you will back out at a considerably slower speed.

The reason I chose the standard transmission with creeper is that I will be using the tractor for other things, such as ripping trenches for underground irrigation pipe and running a rototiller and clearing about 5 acres of jungle(bushes, sapplings, stumps and trees). You only get the full rated pulling power in the lowest gears. To get the engine into its rated power range in 1st low, the wheel/tire speed is just over 1MPH. That dosn't sound like much but it is far easier/takes less energy to hold something in place than to try and stop it once it gets moving(I am a sailor, trust me I know this lesson well). If you are trying to drag something thru the ground(ripper/box scraper/tiller) and you encounter resistance, something is going to give in absorbing the energy of that heavy tractor doing 1 MPH. Either the object breaks, the implement/tractor bends or breaks or the tires loose traction and the wheels spin. If you approach the same obstacle in first low low(creeper) at .25 MPH then the tires have a chance to apply their full bite for full traction force which is what the tractor was designed to withstand. You are also not applying a shock load to the tractor or impliment. When clearing the brush/mowing, I would much prefer that the loader blade push up against the stump I didn't see than ram into it or that the tire CRAWL down into the depression/hole I didn't find than drop into it.

For positioning, you can't beat the precision of a slow speed approach, such as to set that post hole digger exactly over the spot you want or to creep ahead slightly once the point is started to keep the auger straight. For my situation, I saw the shuttle as limiting my capabilities.

 

[F100Panel]

Ronmar, I own both a creeper & a shuttle equipted tractor. I agree with your assesment 100%... BOTH ( shuttle & creeper ) have their place/use... What really impressed me was your explaination of the importance of SLOW ground speed in earth moving operations. I've tried several times & have never been able to put it across that well/THANKS!!!!! Ground speed is far more important than horsepower in those operations

 

[JohnS]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The only real drawback is that the reverse ratio is different(lower) from all the forward ratios so you will back out at a different speed. If you ran into the pile in 3rd gear, you will back out at a considerably slower speed.
)</font>

I do find this an annoyance. Even when brush mowing. Most of the time, use L3 and L2, the LR, is considerably slower. Many times I switch to HR, which means another lever. Yes, just an annoyance.

For box blading (5' is easily handled by a 254/284) of trails and leveling dirt, low range gearing was fine for me. The initial tear-up, with the tines in full lowered position, creeper comes in handy when working around tree/roots. As others have said, need creeper if you have plans for a cultivator. If going 2 bottom plow, disks, and drags for garden, low range should be OK.

So, it is a compromise, and you need to decide what the primary uses will be. Given my use patterns, I think I'd choose the shuttle shift, if going to buy a new Jinma today.

 

[rfengr]

Wow. Thanks guys. I feel I now have a good idea of the difference. What I am after is versatility... time is really not a factor as I am doing this on my own property and if a task takes all day vs 1/2 day, no big deal. I chose 4' implements not so much for their size with respect the the tractors abilities, but with respect to the area it takes to store them.

That being said, I think I will be driving to Oregon to order the Jinma 284 with FEL and Backhoe with the manual transmission and creeper, separate guages, spring seat, foldable ROPS, and sunshield.
(can't beat the tax savings by driving to Oregon!)

I am still debating about having the dealer assemble it and just go pick it up or having it shipped to Seattle in a crate. It seems a lot of folks have assembly issues that eventually get resolved, but take some time. Maybe having the dealer assemble and change fluids/filters to better quality ones from the start would be a good idea. Still have a week to think about it!

Thanks Again, this board is a fantastic resource!


/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[RonMar]

You should really give Ray at coldwater tractors a call(see link to his website farther up this thread). His assembled tractor price for a 284 was less than most crated tractor prices I have seen quoted. The basic 284 that he sells now(see first picture on his website) comes with a one piece lift-up hood, new single gauge cluster, folding ROPS and sunshade. The only real difference I see from the LE model you see advertised around is that the ones he sells have the metal fenders, in tank hydraulic strainer and fixed seat(he said he could add a spring seat). You will have to do the first fluid change yourself and his parts warranty is shorter than most. He does do delivies.

He makes the loaders onsite out of off-the-shelf components(need another cylinder or hydraulic hose, call northern hydraulics and you can have one in a day or two). His loader is a basic 3 cylinder design(one cylinder for the bucket), but the structure looks more than adequate to do the job. I went and looked at one of his 284's with a loader last week. Liked it(and the price so much I wrote him a check right there for one. Hopefully it will be delivered next week