Comparison Buying Advice

[matchbx]

First off, I just wanted to say what a great resource this place is. I've learned quite a bit digging though the posts here. Great community...

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a gray market Yanmar and need a little buying advice. I live about 20 minutes south of Hampton GA, so I'll be paying Steve a visit over at Spalding Tractor. I spoke with him briefly a couple of weeks ago and he seemed like a decent guy. Found a few posts here that backed that up as well.

First off, my experience in using a tractor is on the light side, I used a old 60's ford tractor a few times last year, courtesy of my neighbor. It had no brakes, so you had to use the pto clutch to slow down...fun times.....

Second, my property. I've got 20 or so acres, but most of it is wooded. My driveway is 2000 foot gravel, so main thing I'll be using the tractor for is scraping the driveway a few times a year. I've got a couple of spots I'll use the brushhog on once or twice a year, but if you add them all up, it'll be less than 2 acres. I plan on using an auger, disc harrow & a tiller at times too (probably for a few small deer plots and eventually a small garden). Nothing very big, 1/4 acre here and there.

Third, the tractor. I definitely want a 4WD, I've got some areas that are on the other side of a small hill, and while I won't be doing much work (if any) on the slope, I want to make sure I can easily get back up the hill at the end of the day.

Right now I'm looking at a PTO hp between 17 and 24, I might be wrong, but anything over the 24 seems like an over kill.

Now the questions, Power Shift vs Gear Shift. I've been leaning toward the Power Shift models, but I have to ask the question, given my property, will I ever use anything other than the lowest gear? If that's the only gear I'll ever use, it doesn't make since to make that a priority.

Right now I'm leaning toward either a Series 01 & 10 or a Series 02 & 20.

I know that the Series 02 & 20 made improvements in weight and size as well as moved the Power Shift to the column, does anyone know what else changed? I read on forum somewhere that the Series 02 & 20 had Hydraulic Top Link and Factory Tilt, but I don't know if the Series 01 & 10 had this or not.

Brakes, Steering, Water Pump.... does anyone know the differences between a Series 01 & 10 and a Series 02 & 20 on these items.

Parts... are part easier to get for one Series over the other.

The bottom line question is this: Will a Series 02 & 20 be easier to operate / support / maintain over a Series 01 & 10? Given my experience level, at this point Operate would be a priority for me, but that will change over time.

Time is on my side, I'm in no hurry and I have no issues placing an order and waiting a few months for one to show up. As far as price goes, while I can't afford a loader at the moment, I can afford anything from the 1701D to the 2420D, so the $2000.00 or so price difference between the two isn't that important me. I'm also aware that availability might drive me toward one model over another.

I'd rather get what I need the first time and not have to go back to the wife a year latter and say, well...... this tractor is nice and all, but I really need this other one. That discussion won't end well for me.

Models currently under consideration:
YM 1702D
YM 1720D
YM 1802D
YM 1810D
YM 1820D
YM 2001D
YM 2002D
YM 2010D
YM 2020D
YM 2220D
YM 2310D
YM 2402D
YM 2420D


Thanks for taking the time to read and respond.
matchbx

 

[HoyeTractor]

Welcome to TBN!

The powershift is a very nice feature and is very durable. It is especially nice when you are mowing since you can shift gears without losing power to the mower. Factory tilt (UFO) was an option on both the 02 and 20 series I think but many/most don't have it. I don't think I have ever seen a factory hydraulic top link. The 02 and 20 series get wet disc brakes instead of the dry drums like the 00 and 10 series. Most of the 02/20 series get a few more gauges (fuel & temp). Parts availability is about the same for all of those listed. I'm sure others here can come up with more differences but those are the biggest that I can think of.

 

[winston1]

If your not going to have a loader then power steering is probably not necessary. I believe some, not all of the 02 and 20 series also had power steering. My 2002D had it and with the loader it was nice. I can also confirm the wet disc brakes were great.

Based on your needs and the price difference not a problem I would go with the 2220D. Just an opinion, doesn't mean it is right for you.

 

[clemsonfor]

For your use Power shift may be unnecessary, but that depends on you and how much forward or reverse you plan on doing. I think 4wd without seeing your place may not be necessary, a 2wd tractor will climb as steep a hill as you want and go through some pretty deep mud as well. I am no parts expert but all of those most any part should be available that you would need to keep the tractor In service. Even major parts are available if your skill and confidence allows you to rebuilt major things. Things like the gears in the trans or PTO are probably going to come from parts machines but many folks would just part out or sell it for parts at that point before say pulling an axle half and trying to get a new gear for it, if available, also not saying that is a common failure but just that, that would be the type item your going to have to probably acquire off a a parts unit.

Again if your talking even 1 acre food plots your on the small side and well within the capability of any of those units esp if that and scraping and a tiny amout of bush hogging is all you will do.

I have talked to steve a few times and I have met him in person. He is a great guy. I ended up not buying a tractor from him...should I, probably have I had any real problems, no knock on wood. I would feel comfortable buying from him though, he is a honest guy best I can judge of him and everyone else on here has said the same. He use to post on here and read more often than he would post but I think all of this lawsuit stuff put a lot of the dealers in a holding pattern where they could not say a word and many reduced their public profile till the outcome. I am not sure if this was the reason or he was just so busy in life that he continued to not post here, but 10 years ago he would show up time to time.

And again as far as the hills, I climb the ditch bank onto the highway ( straight up and down of course) that bounds one of my fields. Now it is a short 10 to 15 ft slope but there is nothing to say that I could not climb that hill if it were 100 yards. I have climbed it when wet, but it is covered in grass and brush. Now if it were bare I might have more trouble I guess and it rained 3 inches. But its a pretty steep highway right of way type bank that you see all the time on rural highways. In the woods I have hills on my woods roads and hills in the woods, not mountains or even foot hills types but fairly steep and I have never had to really even hit the Diff lock to get up them. I think for your usage a 2wd would work fine. esp since your not talking heavy loader work or lots of ground engaging equipment where the 4wd gives you more pulling power. But if you think you will need it, its your money and what you want , don't let me talk you out of it. I'm just saying I think a 2wd tractor would be more than able to do what you do.

I have a ym2000, I pull a disk harrow, 4 and 5ft bush hog, have a 4ft box blade, used a post hole digger . It can handle it all, never hooked a tiller to mine but used a tiller on other 24hp tractors and mine would handle no different.

 

[wagne223]

I'm sure Jeff will be along shortly.....and while I think at times he can be a little overboard on his tractor weight recommendations, I will probably agree with him here.

Your primary task is a 2000 ft gravel driveway maintenance. If you intend to maintain the crown and ditches, you are going to need a road blade.

For a blade to work good, it will need to be a minimum of 800 lbs. Heavier is better.

So to pull that blade, I would think you need a tractor that weighs 4000 lbs bare.

If you only want to drag a landplane over the driveway and pay a motorgrader to shape and pull your ditches when needed, then you can get away with a tractor in the 2500 lb range.

My tractor is 2600 lbs bare so I'm familiar with capabilities in that size.

Just my thoughts and opinions.

 

[clemsonfor]

I'm sure Jeff will be along shortly.....and while I think at times he can be a little overboard on his tractor weight recommendations, I will probably agree with him here.

Your primary task is a 2000 ft gravel driveway maintenance. If you intend to maintain the crown and ditches, you are going to need a road blade.

For a blade to work good, it will need to be a minimum of 800 lbs. Heavier is better.

So to pull that blade, I would think you need a tractor that weighs 4000 lbs bare.

If you only want to drag a landplane over the driveway and pay a motorgrader to shape and pull your ditches when needed, then you can get away with a tractor in the 2500 lb range.

My tractor is 2600 lbs bare so I'm familiar with capabilities in that size.

Just my thoughts and opinions.

This would be true for major work and re crowning of a road. But assuming it is crowned already or like many drives here in the south that is just a path over ones property that may or may not have had gravel laid on it over the years many people just flat grade them, slope them to one side or try and just turn water out were they can. If it is crowned you can tilt the blade or box to the tractors ability and kind of crown one if you know what your doing, that said, his tractor can pull a blade it just wont dig to deep, and may need to use rippers first, but I would grade it with the right amount of moisture and you can probably do ok for what he needs.

 

[matchbx]

Thanks to everyone for responding so far. Very useful information.

Glad it was mentioned that the Factory tilt (UFO) was an option and not standard, that way I not thinking somethings missing that shouldn't be, same goes for the factory hydraulic top link.

As far as 4WD, while I can't afford a front end loader at the moment, it is something I'd like to add a year to two down the road, so I think getting the 4WD would be helpful at some point in the future. Winston1, thanks for the tip on the Power Steering, I might not need it now, but when I add the loader it'll be very helpful.

As far as the Power Shift goes, I think this one could go either way. It sounds like it'd be nice to have, but I it had Gear Shift (having never driven a Power Shift model) I'd get used to it and it would be that big of a deal... being open to both models opens up my options as well.

Clemsonfor, you hit the nail on the head with my driveway (matter of fact my real estate agent thought it was an easement). Pasture on one side, woods on the other. There isn't a ditch to maintain and driveway is sloped slightly to the pasture side so all the water eventually runs to a small pond in the pasture. It does need a lot of work (the person I bought the house from didn't maintain it), but I'm planning on hiring someone to grade it and drop dirt and gravel. At that point I should be able to maintain it with the scrape blade.

Wagne223, thanks for the info on weight. Along with the tip concerning wet disc brakes from Aaron I'm definitely leaning toward the Series 02 & 20.


So right now, I leaning more toward the upper end of my list (added the gear shift models to the list as well).
YM 2002D
YM 2020D
YM 2220D (it doesn't look they made a 2202D)
YM 2402D
YM 2420D


Thanks again for the great information.
matchbx

 

[careyo63]

I'm NE. of Atl.. Steve's the man for a Yanmar in Ga.. Had 2 purchased from him. A YM2500 and a YM2000. I also have a JD.5103 I keep up with. All 3 are 2WD. with a loader on the JD.. It has the quick connect feature and the buckets stay off. It's on 35acres and I know it's been over a yr. since I last put a bucket on it. It pretty much cuts all 35 with either a BH. or a FM. and nobody wants it up there while cutting. Neither YM's have a loader but no reason they won't handle one IMHO.. 4wd is a nice feature but not really needed. Esp. when you pressure down the bucket you loose the 4wd.. It lifts the front wheels up!! with a result of little to No traction on the front. I found that out building my house using a Kabuta. Owner asked if I was interested in buying it which I declined and finished up just renting a Bobcat which was much more suited for grading, stump removal etc.. And so much quicker. The JD is 50Hp. so plenty of extra power and never had it stuck yet!! hope I shouldn't have said that....

 

[California]

One more person with opinions ...

* I've seen posts re Spalding here for well over a decade and all are 100% favorable.

* If you are considering a loader get power steering. It will add considerable cost but worth it. On my YM240 (sig photo below) I can't steer with a heavily loaded bucket, have to drop it and lift the front end off the ground with the loader, turn the steering wheel, then lift the bucket and start off in the new direction. Large-radius turns are ok but most of my loader work isn't large-radius.
The little YM186D (with loader) has power steering and Powershift. Far nicer for loader work. Everything works as you would expect, just lift the load and steer wherever. Also nicer for tight maneuvering - mowing near the house or discing by the orchard trees.

* Powershift: Much nicer for loader work, or for mowing in tight quarters. Non-syncro manual transmission requires a pause for the gears to spin down, for every forward/reverse change in direction, also for every change in pitch of a slope as you drive up or down.These continual pauses are an aggravation to getting anything done.

*4wd adds some pulling power but what you will notice most is it will pull the nose around when you steer around something and have an implement on the back - particularly a ground-engaging implement. And it will help to keep moving or back out, if you get bogged down in mud.

* Only the largest models you mentioned will be anywhere near the weight of the Ford tractor you used. For road grading don't expect any of these to have drawbar pull anywhere near that heavy old Ford. Maybe get a lot of ballast. These aren't row-crop or road maintenance tractors, they were optimized for muddy rice paddies. US-type use won't hurt them but they aren't perfectly matched to the tasks like that old Ford.

* Loader: Get one along with whatever tractor you buy. You have no idea how useful a 20hp wheelbarrrow is ... before the first time you use it.

For me the Manual transmission, no PS YM240 for $4k was all I wanted to spend back in 2003 when I bought it. Later when I could afford it the YM186D with loader, PS, and 4wd, even though its smaller and lighter, it is now my favorite. I can zip around here and there in contrast to all the stopping to shift that the YM240 needs. (But only the YM240 is big enough to lift and carry the backhoe).

If cost is relevant I think I would give up 4wd, then size, before compromising the other features. Also the older models are just as good as later ones you mentioned (and possibly simpler for owner-maintained) so there might be a cost savings without compromising anything, choosing an earlier model.

Hope this helps!

 

[careyo63]

Another thing I forgot to add is that on the 2000 I use a rear scoop. And it works like a champ and Cheap!!! I purchased it new for 150.00$ I believe. It also works great for loading and just carry things. It's my Wheel barrow so to speak. I use it on our 11 acres which is 3/4 wooded. And is very easy to maneuver around than a Fel. sticking out the front!!!! I highly doubt it will ever get one. For the cost of a rental bobcat I would go that way if it can't handle the job at task. The JD. has never hit this property in over 10yrs. and only 4 miles away... Been a while on here and I have a pic. of the rear scoop but it's not on the Tractor I can get one if needed. Here's one of it so you can see the size. It doesn't stick out the rear much at all...

 

[draw54]

I went 2420D. Came with a FEL then I added a BH attachment that can dig 6'. I got tired of hand digging and wheelbarrels, sure have enjoyed using this tractor.

 

[careyo63]

Yup!! The Kubota I was referring to had a Back Hoe. But the owner wasn't including it. He had a cable company and was keeping it. That was the deal breaker. And the only way I could use the tractor. The Hyd. Sys. had a problem also so that when you had anything under pressure it would squirt Hyd. fluid in your lap through the steering column. Finally had to put a freeze plug bushing in the steering shaft to even turn the Steering wheel. And on top of that when I called and told him of the problem he said it was just at the dealer for Serv..? I believe it was a B 2800 with 4wd and Fel. also... the bushing worked but with no Back Hoe it wasn't much good to me.

 

[matchbx]

Thanks for the responses, I'm definitely leaning toward the Power Shift and Power Steering. I'd love to get a loader, but at the moment I can't swing it, but I'm looking into the rear scoop. That looks like a very handy implement.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

What do you mean by a "gray market tractor" ?

 

[California]

Gray market = a model intended for one region imported used into another region. Particularly with Yanmars and Kubotas, those manufacturers refuse all support for tractors that arrived in the US used without passing through the corporation's authorized importers. Kubota went a step farther, they got a US Customs order to confiscate any Kubota on the docks that they didn't ship. Yanmar went after most US importers for trademark infringement after they lost an injury lawsuit over a tractor they thought was still in Japan.

Gray-market Kubotas are pretty much unsupportable. Yanmars have good support from Fredricks, the one US importer who has cooperation from Yanmar-Japan, and from Hoye Tractor which stocks a broad line of NAPA-quality replica parts - so maintaining an old Yanmar is about the same as supporting an old VW, Jeep, 60's Mustang etc.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Thank you for the explanation.

 

[California]

And you didn't ask, but a little more Yanmar history: Kubota and Yanmar set up dealerships in the US in the 70's. Then Kubota continued to grow here, but Yanmar contracted to build all the under 50hp models for John Deere, and ended direct export to the US. (My old Yanmars are legitimate Yanmar-USA models from back then). Around 10 years ago the Deere contract ended and a new Yanmar-USA corporation was formed. The new US Yanmars are excellent but those dealers don't know anything about the orphan 70's-80's US Yanmars. Or about gray market imports.

The older ones were designed to be owner-maintained and are still easy to support 30-40 years later. Maybe a VW or Jeep is the closest similar example.

 

[rScotty]

Thanks for the responses, I'm definitely leaning toward the Power Shift and Power Steering. I'd love to get a loader, but at the moment I can't swing it, but I'm looking into the rear scoop. That looks like a very handy implement.

I would certainly agree with Power Steering. That keeps your options open if you ever want to add a loader....and you will.

After that I would add 4WD,.... not so much for the straight-forward traction it gives you as for the advantage that 4wd gives you when steering on slopes or slippery surfaces. You probably won't use 4WD even 10% of the time, but it is sure nice when you do.

Power Shift is pure fun and a wonderful enjoyable convenience - especially appreciated if you have grown up with straight gear shift transmissions.
Don't underestimate the fun factor. Tractors make work fun. Thats a lot of why we are all on this forum. But I wouldn't let gear vs powershift be the deciding factor myself.

California has done an excellent job of explaining why us old mechanical guys just naturally gravitate towards old Yanmars. He hit it right on the bullseye when he wrote that a lot of the popularity is because they were deliberately designed to be owner-maintained..

I would add that Yanmars were also built to the highest mechanical standards of their time. Yanmar simply didn't ever sacrifice quality for profit. At the time that they were imported into the USA, it was their quality that made them popular with mechanical type guys.... but like old Snap-on tools they were also very expensive compared to their competition.

I like to think that when a company combines top quality with owner-maintained, they can create a mechanical icon. But they have to combine both qualities. When they do, we have those old VWs, certain Jeeps & old Chevy pickups, Bridgeport milling machines, South Bend Lathes, Rockwell tools, some Frigidaire appliances, Piper Cubs, old US farm tractors... the list of icons goes on a ways. But what's surprising is how short the list of icons is compared to how many things have been manufactured worldwide. The USA did particularly well in the production of mechanical icons.

Tractors really haven't changed that much in the last 50 years. That was about how long ago that we got dependable 4WD, power steering as standard, powershifting of various types, modern hydraulics, a comfortable operating station, modern electronics, today's front end loaders, and a perfected 3pt hitch. Even so, I don't know of any tractor being manufactured today that combines owner-maintainability with top quality manufacture.

So a 40 year old Yanmar really doesn't give away much of anything to any brand new modern tractor. That means that right now good old Yanmars are a deal - but only IF you are the kind of person who enjoys being able to do simple owner maintenance as a hobby.

rScotty

 

[rScotty]

I'd love to get a loader, but at the moment I can't swing it, but I'm looking into the rear scoop. That looks like a very handy implement.

I know something about scoops vs loaders because back in the 1970s when I bought a used Yanmar with a loader my good buddy bought a nice nearly new IH with a scoop.

We did a lot of the same work and spent a lot of happy days comparing our tractors. Both of us could see the advantage in the other's choice. He got no loader, but with the same money he got enough tractor that it would plow and hay 40 acres of sticky soil - which the lighter Yanmar simply didn't have the power or weight to do.

On the other hand, the scoop is a great wheelbarrow, but it isn't a crane or a bulldozer like a front loader is. He had to wrestly every bale. A scoop can't lift things into the air - which means you can't stack much or load/unload a truck. Not even a pickup truck. Or pick up an old engine block with a chain. A scoop doesn't need chain hooks. But it needs an active owner with a strong back.
And although the scoop will move a surprising amount of dirt from one place to another and even dig a few inches, but it won't push dirt around into new shaped and compacted landscaping like a loader will. Landscapers use loaders, not scoops. And scoops don't do much at all to snow or mud except to drive around in it real well.

Good 3pt scoops are reversible like the one in the photo posted. And VERY heavily built. The best I saw was probably made by Massey. It had that signature round tubular frame and was reversible. Good ones are hard to find but are rarely expensive. If you find one, grab it. They tend to go for less than the cost of the steel they are made from. A scoop is pure magic to the guy without a loader, and handy even if you do have a front loader.

And BTW, that's exactly the problem with the 3pt scoop....that they are just good enough that they will keep a guy from buying a front loader. And the loader can do so much more.

rScotty

 

[clemsonfor]

I have a old Massey scoop. Least that's what I remember it as. I painted it, was super rusty. I painted it Massey red and sprayed clear on it. I have never used it. Not cause I didn't want to but cause I never found something I could use it for. But if I needed to move dirt I would not hesitate to use it. It is probably from the 60s or 70s at the latest I would guess. I only paid $50 for it though. I need to put the hardware back on it and take it to the farm for if I want to move dirt. It does not have a tube frame though it's flat stock steel. I guess it weighs 250 pounds or so.