Buying a ZTR, what should I look for, or avoid?

[mikester]

IMHO I can't buy commercial quality equipment from big box stores, only cheap consumer class crap designed to be disposable and income generators for the retailers. If you don't believe me try buying parts from the big box stores.

 

[WinterDeere]

When I was shopping, I was told a gas engine is likely to die by 750 hours

Whoever told you that was an idiot, or had an agenda. Think about how many hours landscape crews put on their zero turns, easily over 1000 hours per mowing season, more are probably in the 1500+ hours per season territory. Do you think these guys are really replacing their mowers or engines every 3 months?!?

and by 2,000, you should expect it to be scrap,

This number is more reasonable. I'm pretty friendly with two the mechanics at our local Deere dealership, and they tell me they usually see about 2500 hours on them as the ceiling, but will replace one as early as 2000 hours if it needs repair work.

To me, 3,000 hours are probably 25 years.

Very few homeowners are doing anywhere near 120 hours per year. The average is likely closer to half that number.

Replacing a big gas engine by yourself costs $3,500+, so maybe $10,000+ over the course of 20 years

I'm having trouble following you, here. Kawi V-twins run $1700 - $2900, depending on configuration, and you might need ONE replacement inside 20 years. Are you figuring the cost of the original mower purchase in your $10k number?

My mower had 1200 hours on it at the beginning of this season, it's 18 years old, so 70 hours per year over the preceeding 17 seasons. One ignition coil went bad, the only component failure I've ever experienced on this engine. I went ahead and rebuilt the top end, while it was apart, as half wild goose chase and half preventative maintenance. Mechanic friend at local Deere dealer said I should be good for another 17-18 seasons, at which point I'll be nearly 70 and probably ready to retire the thing.

All this aside, one $2k - $3k replacement motor still keeps total cost of ownership WAY below one initial purchase of a diesel ZTR.

 

[Suburban Plowboy]

I am only as good as my search results. When I checked around, I saw big gas mower engines selling for over $4K. I mean the good ones, not the $3,000 Lowe's jobs. Far as I know, you have to go up a lot in horsepower in order to get a gas engine that will compete with a 25-HP diesel. Having used a 20-HP diesel and a 25-HP diesel, I know my yard requires a big engine and 60", so I would want 35 horsepower in a gas engine.

Right now, I am looking at an ad for a Kawasaki FX1000V for $3,500. I see a 36-HP Vanguard repower kit for $3,160. Labor isn't free, so that jacks up the cost by hundreds. Where I live, getting a mower to and from a dealer costs over $100 each way.

Is there really someone out there selling these for $1,700?

You rebuilt your engine at 1200 as a preventative measure. I don't think many diesel owners are doing that. I have 1200 hours on my 2000 tractor, and it has never occurred to me to rebuild the engine. At my current level of use, I don't expect to do it in my lifetime. My 1991 John Deere mower with the mystery hours has never been rebuilt.

A lot of residential users are mowing more than 70 hours per year, so longevity matters a lot to some people.

As for purchase price, because diesels are so reliable and last so long, the reasonable thing for a homeowner is to compare a used diesel to new gas mower. I would much rather put $8,000 into a used diesel than a Home Depot mower with a weak deck and all the problems associated with gas.

Where I live, keeping small gas engines running is a problem unless they are used very frequently. My E-Z-GO, all my chainsaws, all my blowers...it has been a time-consuming and annoying challenge. The Kubota and the John Deere have always fired right up. No running them dry. No running them periodically just to keep them going. No Sea Foam. No additives of any kind. Not one fuel system rebuild. If I had a gas mower, I know exactly what would probably happen every season when I tried to start it for the first time.

I should be able to get 7 mows out of this thing between refills. That's also a huge bonus. I hate driving to get gas and lugging cans around.

 

[fidowanttobe]

After having a front mount flip up deck on my Grasshopper, ain't no way I wouldn't.
Visibility and maintenance is soooo much better.
Spendy but built like a tank.

 

[WinterDeere]

You make good arguments, and there's no one "right" answer for everyone. But just to clarify a few points:

1. We were talking about Kawi V-twin 25 hp motors only. Not 35 hp motors, and not Briggs Vanguard.
2. The exact engine configuration for my commercial 60" Deere 757 ZTrak mower is $2400, from numerous sources. This is without PTO and flywheel, all the added bolt-on crap that's easily transferred from my old motor.
3. Very few residential customers are mowing more than 70 hours per year, but even at that rate, you'd need 30+ years to burn thru a typical Kawi V-twin.
4. You will need to replace a Kawi V-twin 3x to equal the up-front cost of one diesel mower. For the person mowing 70 hours per year, which is a lot for most, that's nearly 100 years of mowing!

I just don't see the justification, unless you're mowing a heck of a lot more than the average ZTR owner, and even then...

 

[skramer360]

2006 Gravely commercial 260 owner here, we bought it new with a commercial Kohler Command 27hp gas engine. I have put $0 in engine repairs or parts except maintenance items. I would never be able to justify the extra cost of a diesel engine. When I worked at a small engine shop we had many, many commercial mowing companies with mowers with gas engines in the 1500 to 2000 hour range.

 

[DK35vince]

Where I live, keeping small gas engines running is a problem unless they are used very frequently. My E-Z-GO, all my chainsaws, all my blowers...it has been a time-consuming and annoying challenge. The Kubota and the John Deere have always fired right up. No running them dry. No running them periodically just to keep them going. No Sea Foam. No additives of any kind. Not one fuel system rebuild. If I had a gas mower, I know exactly what would probably happen every season when I tried to start it for the first time.

No idea why you have so many fuel system issue.
My zero turns, pressure washer, push mower, walk behind rototiller, Etc. I run some Stabil threw the fuel system and park them for months through the winter.
I never have fuel system issues on any of them. Start right up and go in the spring.

 

[Gator6x4]

You need one of these:

https://sleequipment.com/products/curtis-1fisx33pr-premium-air-condition-cab-for-ferris-isx3300?variant=44767312543925&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=270363430&gbraid=0AAAAADsodPrx3s5wVCkLI6d3KfjsYpA9b&gclid=Cj0KCQjwuvrBBhDcARIsAKRrkjfwWSSdaimlRrBBa3f7buuFteaUgN7b4gT9SmgrbaoNhxL7zXQxMZ4aAmEcEALw_wcB

That price is the cab only. Factor in the mower and installation and you are talking a $30,000 dollar lawn mower.

I can remember when one could purchase a brick 3 bedroom, 2 baths, kitchen, dining room, living room with fire place two vehicle garage and a full basement setting on a one acre lot for the high 20’s. Times sure have changed.

 

[WinterDeere]

No idea why you have so many fuel system issue.
My zero turns, pressure washer, push mower, walk behind rototiller, Etc. I run some Stabil threw the fuel system and park them for months through the winter.
I never have fuel system issues on any of them. Start right up and go in the spring.

Same, and I don't even use stabilizer in anything except our generator. But Plowboy is in FL, which is a uniquely harsh climate WRT to humidity and heat.

 

[DK35vince]

Same, and I don't even use stabilizer in anything except our generator. But Plowboy is in FL, which is a uniquely harsh climate WRT to humidity and heat.

Maybe it is a Florida thing, because I simply do not have all the fuel related issues he claims to have.