Business plans for Mulching

[dive2diver]

Ok now I am really confused, I have talked with my local dealer he said they are required to have a Class A cerified. Not a CDL Class A, have checked withe the DMV website and it states from DMV. Now from what I read all one needs is a regular Licenses Class A Because you are not towing more than 26,001 lbs. At least I don't plan on towing more than 15,000 Lbs. I have a guy I know who is a NC State trooper when I can get up with him I plan asking for some claritly. This seems to get complicated.


Chapter 1: Types of Licenses, Permits and Certifications

Types of Regular Licenses:

If you are 18 years of age or older you may apply for an original North Carolina driver license. Under North Carolina's classified license system most drivers need only a Class C license to operate personal automobiles and small trucks.

Class A: Required to operate any combination of vehicles exempt from commercial driver license (CDL) requirements with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is greater than 10,000 pounds. Also required for operating any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds, if the vehicle being towed has a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds.

Class B: Required to operate any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more that is exempt from CDL requirements, and any such vehicle while towing another vehicle with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or less.

Class C: Required to operate any vehicle with a GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds that is exempt from CDL requirements and is not towing a vehicle with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds. Most drivers need only a Regular C license to operate personal automobiles and small trucks.


Types of Commercial Licenses (CDLs):

A CDL is required for drivers, paid or volunteer, who drive the following types of vehicles that are designed or used to transport passengers or property.

Class A: Required to operate a vehicle that has a combined gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of at least 26,001 lbs and includes as part of the combination a towed unit that has a GVWR of at least 10,001 lbs. Class B: Required to operate:
A single motor vehicle that has a GVWR of at least 26,001 lbs.
A combination of motor vehicles that includes as part of the combination a towing unit that has a GVWR of at least 26,001 lbs and a towed unit that has a GVWR of less than 10,001 lbs.
Class C: A single or combination of motor vehicles not included in Class A or B but meets any of the following descriptions:
is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver.
is transporting hazardous materials and is required to be placarded.
You do not need a CDL to drive recreational vehicles, military equipment, fire and/ or emergency equipment or certain farm vehicles. However, a classified license of the appropriate class is always required.

 

[Ford960]

There's two different things going on here that tends to confuse people, the CDL A and a Class A license.
Keep in mind that if you are driving a vehicle in any kind of business then a CDL is required if the weights exceed those listed.
A Class A drivers license is for NON commercial vehicles that exceed the weights listed. These include personnally owned and operated trucks and trailers.

Now in the wording of the laws, if you are using a truck/trailer combination that exceeds 26,000# GVWR to transport equipment that you use to make money with then you are engaged in a commercial operation and that requires a CDL. That includes hauling a race car to the track.

I'm not sure what your dealer is trying to tell you, they may be like the RV dealers who try to sell the mega diesel pusher motorhomes that gross over 26,001# as not needing any special license. They will quote the section in the CDL manual that says that a CDL is not required to drive one of these RV's if it is being used for the sole purpose and use of the driver. That's correct, no CDL is required but a class b drivers license is required.

It's confusing at best but it's all right there in writing for all to read.

Good Luck

 

[JDSkidsteer]

I had a Tenessee DOT officer show me a federal highway law manual that stated if you are towing a trailer rated over 10,000 lbs. loaded or unloaded you are required to have class A CDL's. I take the driving test the 23rd of March. Already had B's and just took written combination.

 

[JDSkidsteer]

Oh yea I found the link for the bradco Magnum mulcher head looks good. Anybody done a demo with one yet? I would think for the type of woods we have here a hammer type would do better than a blade type. We have tons and tons of pine trees with lots of thick under brush hardly any rocks to speak of but can have some very wet swampy areas which I think the RC-100 can deal with rather easily.



View attachment 69877




Bradco

I have been reluctant about selling mulching heads untill my Bradco rep. told me about a oil cooler package they offered to mount to the magnum head. I sold one without the cooler last September and am pleased with the results. We have since ordered 2 heads for stock. Should be in soon.

 

[Digdeep]

The Bradco rep I spoke to said they came out with it because the New Holland and JD machines didn't have sufficient cooling. He showed me a picture of it, and based on where it's located out on the head, secured with only four bolts under the push bar, I'm not sure how long it will last there until something rips it off. Time will tell.

 

[kmdigital]

Since this post was originally about business plans, I will discuss that instead of trailer weights

Anyways, my take is that based on your numbers you would be very foolish to buy a brandnew machine for a part-time operation. Guranteed that you won't make enough to cover all the incidentals, unexpected expenses, etc, and you don't even have the cost of a truck and trailer included in your figures!

That machine would end up eating you alive, financially speaking, and you would rue the day you ever decided to start a business! I think the idea has merit, but for Pete's sake, use some common sense and start a little slower. That means buy a good used machine instead of a $55k plus machine, and another $20K plus for truck and trailer (you didn't discuss this, but if you are foolish enough to sign a note for this machine, you will also do the same thing for a nice truck and trailer you can't justify or afford!)

Start small with something that you can either pay cash for, or that won't eat you alive with payments if the work doesn't come in as expected, and than upgrade the equipment as business and cashflows warrant. It may not be as much fun as running the latest and greatest, but when calls are slow in coming in, etc, than you will be very glad that you aren't facing bankruptcy due to payments you can't afford.

Essentially, there is no way in *&)* that you can afford to buy a brand new machine in that price range and not run it every day possible, as many hours as possible each day, unless you have tons of cash on hand before you start! There is nothing wrong with having dreams, but remember, dreams can also become nightmares, and your dream has all the makings of becoming one using your scenerios!

My $0.02 worth, and take it for what I meant it, a wakeup call to try to prevent you from doing something you will later regret. I'm sure others will disagree, and that is their perogative, but my business degree and experience tell me differently.

 

[JDSkidsteer]

The Bradco rep I spoke to said they came out with it because the New Holland and JD machines didn't have sufficient cooling. He showed me a picture of it, and based on where it's located out on the head, secured with only four bolts under the push bar, I'm not sure how long it will last there until something rips it off. Time will tell.

I sold one last fall w/o cooler and it seems to be doing fine. I am crossing my fingers because overheating has been an issue for Deere with other brand heads. I did tell customer he may have to purchase oil cooler if he had problems.

 

[dive2diver]

How would something like this work for the some what smaller what smaller stuff. Would not require as big as a machine and alot lighter in weight.
Has anyone seen one of these before and how do they stand up?


BRUSHMONSTER.com - Universal Rotary Cutter For Skid Steer Loaders

 

[Robbie Hegwood]

Forget it!!! Those units are several thousand dollars themselves and you would destory it trying to compete with mulchers. I did a job for a grading contractor who had a t-300 and a similar cutter. He was able to cut larger material than I would have thought. He starting cutting into a pine thicket and soon could go no farther, about 3" material. I then picked up where he left off and really showed what these heads are made of. They were impressed.

Trust me a have 100 H.P. and a bad head and run out of cutting capacity frequently. If you as serious about this business you need the right equipment to compete. If you can't do the job the next guy will!!!

A few things about the post by KM digital. He has very good points from a business stand point. A good used truck will work fine. I paid 24k for mine with 60k on it. Trailer prices aren't as critical so a new unit would be better. As for the machine I totally disagree, well I agree about starting small but not applicable here because. You have to have a larger unit to be productive. A significantly cheaper machine would have too many hours to be dependable, a customer doesn't want to hear "my machine is down I call you when it's fixed." Plus high flows are still relatively new therefore still fetch high dollar on the resale side. A good 2 year warranty will cover you getting up and running to absorbe unforseen cost.

But he is also right about them eating you alive. It's a fine line between costing you money and making you money. Market competition and price will ultimately dicide your businesses future.

Most of us are wide open gear heads and just want the tractor. Sometimes it takes a reality check to focus our efforts. Thanks KM for that check. Robbie

 

[dive2diver]

Ok here's what I haved learned from the dealer ASC-100 (Cab&AC) $56,000, Loftness Carbine Cutter $21,800, Forestry Package $5000. Total $82,800 + tax .0675. Can Finance for 60 months at 5.65%

According to the dealer most area operators are charging about $150 per hr. some rates as high as $175 with a low of $135.

He also said I need to get to know my local forestry Reps which just happen to be right up the street.

Now I know what KM wrote and I understand where he is coming from, however I believe that is why I to this forum is going so I can learn about the pitfalls and hopefully make the right choices, if I do get past the obstacles that stand in front of me. Like a CDL license for one and the move up into a bigger truck which I am looking at a used one with out a doubt, possible as old as a 90 model flat bed but more to follow up on that later. I know I will go it debt with the equipment purchase, which will be major deal. But I will make sure I have a customer base setup first, as I have already talked with a local surveyor who did say drop off may info when I am setup and ready to go.

Now I posted a projected price and payment plan to include maintenace issues on an early post and then KM comes a says I would be basiclly crazy to even try what we have been talking about. I am trying to find ways to make this work and not fail. I have cleared my entire lot where my house sits now entirely by hand with a chain saw and weed eater metal blade, with 2 hornet stings to the back of the head needless to say I am not afraid of hard work, but I want a easier and faster way to avoid the BEES AND WASPS and anything in between.

 

[Robbie Hegwood]

That is a very solid plan and solid numbers. Two major points to make.

Forestry guys I have found not really your best bet. They have bulldozers, must cut fire breaks into the dirt and they burn the land. Obviously not going for apperiance. Plus forestry hourly rates here 75.00 hr. Hard to cpmpete with that. Also burning is extremely fast. Hope you have better luck. I have been wooing my forestry reps to see where it may lead. Nowhere yet.

Second, builders are your best bet. Grading contractors and developers specificly. They have ALL the money and usually multiple projects going at once. You will have to catch a break or know one prior to capitalize. They are a little easier of a sale because they understand equipment better and can grasp the concept quicker. But most of them are in tight with someone already so again good luck.

Lastly, think big. Little jobs are great but the big ones will put money in the bank to float you through winter. Winter sucks. Plan on atleast 1-2 months no mulching work. No joke. Been there, got the shirt.

See what you make of all that. Robbie If your curious have a look at our web site. Trinity Mulching - Atlanta Georgia Mulching Company

 

[dive2diver]

Robbie or anyone for that matter, what kind of maintance problems do you guys have with the ASV? I just talked with guy in the local area who states he wishes he never started it! He has two units both with Fecon heads and allways has one unit in the shop. Various issues like over heating above 75 degs which causes him to only run for 2 hours before he is losing water. Head problems with balance issues. Drum replacement for a cost of over $10,000. Could this just be a guy who pushes the equipment too hard and basiclly abusing the H#@ out of it, or these common problems. I may try and meet up with him in the next few days to see the equipment first hand but I also see if this is truely what I want to get in to.

 

[dive2diver]

By the way I have a mechincal background with cars and aircraft engine so some maintance can and would be done by me. especially if I could get a hold of some manals.

 

[Robbie Hegwood]

On my ASV you have a dozen or so grease fittings that have to be greased daily. Add fuel and run, As long as you have a carbide toothed head that is pretty much it. Have it serviced at the correct intervals and I don't see a problem. A few more thoughts.

One, I have only heard of a few balancing issues but they have all had the name fecon in them.

Second, it sounds like he is deffinently pushing his equipment too hard. It's easy to be coaxed into attacking material that is honestly too big. I'm having to learn a new word of NO. I have been pushing my head also and it's beginning to show. Set your personal criteria for material you can handle and stick to it. It will work out. And as you probably know you would run your equipment better and easier then a hired operator would.

Third, I have only heard of a few overheating problems, I think an extra hyd. cooler is an excellent idea. You can never have too much cooling, especially on the hyd which has no effect on engine performance.

Fourth, These machines are picky and run in harsh environments. They need to be blown out often, air filters replaced often, and throughly cleaned weekly. But as long as you are prepared for this then your okay.

I feel mulching machines could be categorized more toward heavy equipment therefore are very maintenance prone. There is honestly more upkeep than I anticipated but just set aside days for only maint. and you'll be fine.

One more thought. If the guy your talking too was truely that feed up with it he would have asked if you wanted to buy a couple of tractors. Sounds like he's pulling your chain a bit. Plus if you can address the issues he has than your already one step ahead. Right?

Alright enough for now. My two typeing fingers hurt. Robbie

 

[HeyUvaVT]

No maint. issues here to speak of...like robbie says keep after it on a daily basis and you will be rewarded with a faithful machine

 

[dive2diver]

He did ask if I wanted to buy his unit, and he ask mentioned track issues, like I said I believe he does push his equipment very hard. I am going to plan out going out to his job site which is about 20 miles from here so I will see how his equipment and his maintance practices work out for him. I have so much to think about and understand before I make this leap.

 

[AlanB]

Just a thought, he may or may not be willing, depends on his and your personalities, but could you just go work for / with him for a couple of days / weeks? There is no better way to learn in my opinion then to do it.

Be up front that you want to start your own business, some guys will be in the "there is plenty of work to go around camp" and there are some who will be in the "I can't help you, you are my Competition and will steal my business camp" If he is the first group, he will welcome the help. If he is the second group, you will get nowhere.

Anyway, a week of your time would be free to him (which he should appreciate) and will be the cheapest education you could buy (as all you should have to put out is your time.

I will bet that you will learn more in a week running with him then you even know what to ask at this point. You may learn that you don't want to do it, and you may learn that he is doing a lot of things you would not do, anyway, I would try and work with him a week or so.

Good luck with whatever you do.

 

[Robbie Hegwood]

Alan, that has to be just about the best advice I've heard yet. For Divers sake I hope he would do that.

I've demoed a couple of heads and its hard to get a good feel for what it can do in a 1-2 hour demo. That would be the best education bar none.

Another route would be line up some work and rent a unit. It wouldn't make you much if any money but it would be a no obligation trial run. This is a very demanding business, we are pushing equipment to the max and when it breaks it usually breaks big. Last week a hit a piece of buried cement and destroyed 6 blades and 5 hours of repair work to my timberax. Broken welds and a blade mount. You have to fix it right and right then. It cost me 225.00 and 2 days to repair. It took about 2 seconds and the damage was done. I did run it for an hour before I realized I had a problem.

 

[dive2diver]

That says like a very good idea, I don't about this guy I am talking with in my area, he says he is business man. But the way he talks about his equipment he may not be the best to present this idea too. I do I have some family in the Johnson city, Tn area. Anyone in between eastern Nc and there? I would really like to see some of this equipment in action.