Burying water pipe

[PHPaul]

I need to replace the water line from the house to the barn. I did the original with a chain trencher and got it down 16" or so. I drain it in the fall and lug water with buckets all winter.

Hooked it up this spring and I have a blockage of some sort, either collapsed pipe or ice, not sure which. Plus, over the years it's been hit or dug up, re-routed and otherwise dicked around with, and has multiple leaks.

I'm thinking this time I'll try using a variation of a "tile plow" like the big boys use to put in drain tile in their fields. I'll only be burying 1" poly, so I'm hoping my JD 750 will pull it okay. I'd like to bury it about 16"-18" again. Below frost would be nice, but I have a ditch to cross that would require going 7 or 8 feet deep, plus I'm not willing to spend that much time on a backhoe to trench the whole 300-ish feet.

So, what I'm looking for is links to examples of a mini tile plow, or sketches/ideas on how one should be made.

 

[jenkinsph]

You might consider tapering a ditch crossing if it is dry and use the trencher again. Some of the larger trenchers could put the pipe deeper maybe five feet and reduce your problems. Might be the cheaper easier approach imo.

 

[Whatswrong]

It is your choice but 300 ft. is a short trench ,in Maine it gets cold ,if you have the backhoe bury it 8ft save your back and the headache. You have already said you have plenty of grief with the sallow burial but this is coming from somewhere that 5ft is an invitation for trouble.

 

[newbury]

I drain it in the fall and lug water with buckets all winter.

If you get by all winter with buckets why not just get a bigger bucket?

2 IBC totes could give you 600 gallons.

 

[Deerherd]

So, what I'm looking for is links to examples of a mini tile plow, or sketches/ideas on how one should be made.

I made one from a TSC subsoiler. Here is a picture of it with a piece of exhaust pipe welded into a angle iron. That is a ditching point on there now, for trenching I used the standard point.



I ordered a large cable layer attachment for a subsoiler but when it arrived I realized it needed a much larger sub soiler than the TSC so I put it in the man cave for a drink holder!

 

[PHPaul]

Deerherd, that's what I was thinking of doing.

Two questions: How much tractor do you use to pull it, and how well is that exhaust pipe cable guide holding up?

 

[Depmandog]

Sir, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but you remind me of my father-in-law...he wants to do everything half-assed.

Obviously you use the barn durning the winter, and I am guessing that Maine winters are no picnic. No idea how old you are, but you are older today than you were yesterday - and at some point - hauling buckets of water during that long cold winter will be too much.

Rent a trencher or a mini excavator (or find someone who has one and barter some services). Install a frost free hydrant and be done with it. Make it easier on yourself! (You are not a spring chicken anymore).

Ok, preaching over.

If you are like my FIL, you are gonna do it your way anyhow. This is the point where I call him a hard headed penny pincher - then make fun of him every time he complains about hauling water in the cold. (we get along quite well for two hard headed guys)

Good luck sir

 

[Deerherd]

Deerherd, that's what I was thinking of doing.

Two questions: How much tractor do you use to pull it, and how well is that exhaust pipe cable guide holding up?

I have an 88 hp tractor that pulls it fine and there is a piece of angle iron welded on to protect the exhaust tube from damage. Your main concern is that whatever you are pulling can make the bend at the bottom without binding. Make sure you have the end flared so that the cable feeds smooth.
To use that larger tube I purchased I would need a much larger sub soiler.

Here's a picture with more detail showing how the angle iron protects the tube and spreads the trench.

 

[JimRB]

I have a single shank subsoiler, sort of that looks like the orange picture minus the plow point at the bottom. My JD870 with a loader will get stuck pulling it. Note I have no traction aids (filled tires or suitcase weights) so the tractor weighs 3,000 pounds and the loader as another few hundred/thousand. My single shank probably requires less HP than the cable/hose pipe tool. My tractor is too light with not enough tractor. I suspect if my tractor weighed another 3,000 pounds I would be good. Maybe 4wd might help a bit. Old low horsepower tractors did plowing work with weight and gears.

 

[Egon]

Just a mention that a prebent electrical conduit section might be used in the plow build.

 

[bigtiller]

I just had a 200 foot line trenched in yesterday. The guy said that in this area very few lines are trenched. Most people are switching over to boring water lines. I don't know if there is a price difference but for sure there would be less mess to clean up.

 

[TomSeller]

I would bite the bullet and put it way down 6 to 8', whatever Maine weather dictates. Unless the ground is real rocky or has lots of roots, I would guess digging a trench would take a day or so.

 

[Budweiser John]

The cost of the pipe and fittings is going to be the same price whether buried 16 inches or 8 feet.
If you need to haul water in the winter, I cannot fathom why you wouldn't bite the bullet and do it right and be done with it. Don't by the cheep stuff at TSC either. Get a good heavy wall pipe at a plumbing supply house and use good quality fittings and stainless steel clamps, Allow plenty of aggregate in the trench for the drain back on the hydrants too.

 

[PHPaul]

Depmandog and Budweiser John:

Ya nailed me, I'm a cheap Esso Bee.

I have my own backhoe, but it's a small one and digging that trench even 4 feet deep would be an all day job. Plus, there's a ditch between the source and the barn and I can't think of a way to get below frost when crossing that ditch with the equipment I have.

Also, the source at the house is a frost proof sill cock and a hose over the deck to the point where the PVC goes underground. If I go frost proof all the way, I'll have to start in the basement, bore a hole out through the foundation and add another 100 feet of trench.

Too much work to do with the equipment I have, and I'm too broke/cheap to hire it done.

At 63 and looking at a few more Maine winters, I must admit the thought of a year around hydrant is more than a little tempting tho.

I'll have to think on it some more.

 

[PHPaul]

Also for Budweiser John:

DeWitt, eh? I was raised on a farm a mile and a half NE of Fowler, used to work at Oldsmobile in Lansing. Drove through DeWitt every day.

 

[vtsnowedin]

Even in Maine the frost only goes six feet deep in the areas that are plowed bare in winter. roads and parking lots etc. Out under sod or in the woods where there is snow cover it seldom goes down more than a foot. My water pipe runs 1800 feet up through the woods and is only 18" deep and never bothers. Crossing that ditch you would only have to be a foot or so below the bottom of it as that will be a place that has plenty of snow cover and perhaps running water in the ditch and may not freeze at all. I'd route that pipe so that most of it was out in the sod away from plows and only go six feet deep where it had to cross the driveway. 300 feet with your own backhoe might take a couple of days but that's what you bought it for isn't it?

 

[PHPaul]

Even in Maine the frost only goes six feet deep in the areas that are plowed bare in winter. roads and parking lots etc. Out under sod or in the woods where there is snow cover it seldom goes down more than a foot. My water pipe runs 1800 feet up through the woods and is only 18" deep and never bothers. Crossing that ditch you would only have to be a foot or so below the bottom of it as that will be a place that has plenty of snow cover and perhaps running water in the ditch and may not freeze at all. I'd route that pipe so that most of it was out in the sod away from plows and only go six feet deep where it had to cross the driveway. 300 feet with your own backhoe might take a couple of days but that's what you bought it for isn't it?

You got a point there. It's ALL through the pasture, no roads or gardens. The original layout just has the PVC sticking up out of the ground, radiator-clamped to a steel fence post and a faucet on the top. The part sticking out of the ground would freeze for sure, but I might be able to get away with a reasonable depth and a frost proof hydrant.

Hmmmmmmm....

 

[CNC Dan]

You got a point there. It's ALL through the pasture, no roads or gardens. The original layout just has the PVC sticking up out of the ground, radiator-clamped to a steel fence post and a faucet on the top. The part sticking out of the ground would freeze for sure, but I might be able to get away with a reasonable depth and a frost proof hydrant.

Hmmmmmmm....

What's that about a radiator?

You could add a layer of rigid foam insulation in places where you couldn't go as deep as you should. Should help with the frost depth.

 

[PHPaul]

What's that about a radiator?

Brain cramp. Meant to say "hose clamped"

 

[GPintheMitten]

I'm going to put a frost free hydrant out at the corner of the pasture fence where the water trough is. I also have a small backhoe BH6500 that I recently bought to put on my B2620. I'll start the trench at the corner of the house down about 6 feet and punch through the basement wall. I did it that way about 20 years ago at my other house but I hired the ditching.

We currently have a frost free hydrant in the barn but we have to run about a hundred feet of garden hose from there to the water trough. We drain the hose each time in the winter to keep it from freezing. Even that is too much of a pain so hence the new line to the pasture. My new ditch and line will be as deep as the hoe will go or about 6'.

I'm your age PHPaul. Do your self a favor and put the line deep enough to use all year. And buy the extra length to go to the house. Punching a hole through the basement wall is not that big a deal. I'm sure you've done tougher stuff. Then after putting the pipe through, patch the hole inside and out.