Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days

[FairfaxStu]

Ha, that is funny. I heard through the "grapevine" that some very talented people have left this company. Enough said...

As for the comment about the builder reading this thread? I think you all know that is not going to happen because Peter already gave him a link and discussed it with him. If we have not sufficiently shamed them into doing better work by now, it will just never happen.
-Stu

 

[J F]

t
As for the comment about the builder reading this thread? I think you all know that is not going to happen because Peter already gave him a link and discussed it with him. If we have not sufficiently shamed them into doing better work by now, it will just never happen.
-Stu

I think Pete ended up being the GC, and his "complaints" were handled after the fact. That's what it sounds like. IF that is the case, shame on the builder.

Stu, remind us all again, what kind of due diligence was done prior to choosing this builder.

 

[FairfaxStu]

Jay:

I am the last person in the world to answer that question because I will not thow my very good friend under the bus, as it were. The basics, as I understand them, are that he interviewed the builder as well as past customers including visiting and inspecting the work they did.
-Stu

 

[J F]

If you thought I was asking you to throw Pete "under the bus", then I didn't state myself very well.

I'll try again...Stu, remind us all again, what kind of due diligence was done prior to choosing this builder?

I added a "?" this time. :laughing:

 

[J F]

I'm only asking you, because you seem to have a lot of knowledge about the build, Stu.

 

[PILOON]

There are different types of carpenters.
Framers, finish, and cabinet makers.
Framer is fast and accuracy is probably +/- 1/8" he nails or screws down a sheet of plywood every 8-10 inches in 10 mins.
Finisher will have nail/screw that same sheet every 9 1/4 inch and use exactly 95 screws per sheet and take 25 mins per sheet.
Cabinet maker will have same accuracy as finisher but will sand each sheet and joint and take 35 mins per sheet.
The framer's typical outlook will be "Its good enough" or " I wont see it from my front porch". If the stud is cut short he shims it. If stud is warped he cuts a check midway to straighten it,
Finisher generally measures twice and sands every joint and counter sinks each brad etc.He rarely makes a second cut. He eyeballs every stud and rejects about 25%.
Framer uses a 24oz hammer and uses the claw as an axe to adjust fits while the finisher only uses a 16oz and nails with short precise strokes and never mars the wood surface.
AND:
Rarely can one adapt to the others outlook or practice.
It boils down to time and money.

 

[PILOON]

There are different types of carpenters.
Framers, finish, and cabinet makers.
Framer is fast and accuracy is probably +/- 1/8" he nails or screws down a sheet of plywood every 8-10 inches in 10 mins.
Finisher will have nail/screw that same sheet every 9 1/4 inch and use exactly 95 screws per sheet and take 25 mins per sheet.
Cabinet maker will have same accuracy as finisher but will sand each sheet and joint and take 35 mins per sheet.
The framer's typical outlook will be "Its good enough" or " I wont see it from my front porch". If the stud is cut short he shims it. If stud is warped he cuts a check midway to straighten it,
Finisher generally measures twice and sands every joint and counter sinks each brad etc.He rarely makes a second cut. He eyeballs every stud and rejects about 25%.
Framer uses a 24oz hammer and uses the claw as an axe to adjust fits while the finisher only uses a 16oz and nails with short precise strokes and never mars the wood surface.
AND:
Rarely can one adapt to the others outlook or practice.
It boils down to time and money.

 

[ljnelson109]

One thing that has surprised me on this project is the code enforcement. I am in Howard County, MD which is likely within 100 miles of this build. Having built a house in 2011 and a deck in 2012, I am baffled how some of these concerns have not been code issues. Many of the comments and concerns on the deck would be addressed by the building inspector in my county. There is no chance that guardrail posts attached by lag bolts would ever fly here. I realize that these inspectors all have hot buttons and also tend to miss things from time to time. The concern about that change in the double floor joist under the fireplace is another example. On my house, there were places where the builder substituted a stack of 2x6s for a metal column. He prefers not to use metal in exterior walls and with 2x6 walls it was easy to substitute a stack of 2x6s. The framing inspector called him on it. Made him go back to the architect and sign-off on the change. There was another place in my house where there were 2 columns next to each other. The first floor has a sunken living room. The architect called for 2 columns to support a pair of I-beams that met at that location but were at different elevations. The builder was determined to connect the 2 beams and support them under one column. In his defense, it looks odd in the basement with 2 columns 10" apart. The inspector would not approve any field modification to allow the 2 beams to be supported by one column.

I could go on. I realize that the recent focus is on fit and finish. But, some of the items on the "punch list" go back to structure and safety. I really can't believe that the code enforcement inspector would not throw a flag on some of those issues.

Lee

 

[J F]

There are different types of carpenters.
Framers, finish, and cabinet makers.
Framer is fast and accuracy is probably +/- 1/8" he nails or screws down a sheet of plywood every 8-10 inches in 10 mins.
Finisher will have nail/screw that same sheet every 9 1/4 inch and use exactly 95 screws per sheet and take 25 mins per sheet.
Cabinet maker will have same accuracy as finisher but will sand each sheet and joint and take 35 mins per sheet.
The framer's typical outlook will be "Its good enough" or " I wont see it from my front porch". If the stud is cut short he shims it. If stud is warped he cuts a check midway to straighten it,
Finisher generally measures twice and sands every joint and counter sinks each brad etc.He rarely makes a second cut. He eyeballs every stud and rejects about 25%.
Framer uses a 24oz hammer and uses the claw as an axe to adjust fits while the finisher only uses a 16oz and nails with short precise strokes and never mars the wood surface.
AND:
Rarely can one adapt to the others outlook or practice.
It boils down to time and money.

This is pretty spot on Piloon, at least in my real world experience hiring and working with different carpenters. Every once in awhile you find someone who excels in both ends of the spectrum, but it's definitely the proverbial needle in the haystack. Heck, finding someone who excels on either end can be a challenge.

 

[J F]

There are different types of carpenters.
Framers, finish, and cabinet makers.
Framer is fast and accuracy is probably +/- 1/8" he nails or screws down a sheet of plywood every 8-10 inches in 10 mins.
Finisher will have nail/screw that same sheet every 9 1/4 inch and use exactly 95 screws per sheet and take 25 mins per sheet.
Cabinet maker will have same accuracy as finisher but will sand each sheet and joint and take 35 mins per sheet.
The framer's typical outlook will be "Its good enough" or " I wont see it from my front porch". If the stud is cut short he shims it. If stud is warped he cuts a check midway to straighten it,
Finisher generally measures twice and sands every joint and counter sinks each brad etc.He rarely makes a second cut. He eyeballs every stud and rejects about 25%.
Framer uses a 24oz hammer and uses the claw as an axe to adjust fits while the finisher only uses a 16oz and nails with short precise strokes and never mars the wood surface.
AND:
Rarely can one adapt to the others outlook or practice.
It boils down to time and money.

This is pretty spot on Piloon, at least in my real world experience hiring and working with different carpenters. Every once in awhile you find someone who excels in both ends of the spectrum, but it's definitely the proverbial needle in the haystack. Heck, finding someone who excels on either end can be a challenge.