Building A House/Doing It Yourself/ICFs

[44hill]

Yes, I have built my own ICF house this past year. I started from the ground up with no 'real' ICF or building experience. My biggest complaint was the amout of time it took to build. My help came from family and friends. We started 9/99 we moved in 7/00 and I am still finishing little things.

My opinion is that ICF is the ONLY way to go. The walls and the footing went up real quick and easy.

 

[Bird]

Oooh, that picture hurts! That would really upset me and start a battle./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Bird

 

[cowboydoc]

Dan,
What I meant by the integrity is that I have seen guys just slap those up and not get them right. Also I know that they are guaranteed but I just didn't buy the stuff not degrading at the time. BUT I'm an old tried and true and it's hard to sell me on new stuff when the old works so well. Always did things with forms and took the time to put them in right and sturdy. Just couldn't teach me a new trick on that one not to put in forms. Hey btw I did do a drive in basement and love it! I made the garage 40 x 30 so it's nice. I insulated it all and it stays 45 in there all winter even with the subzero temps we've been having. Walk right into the basement. My wife doesn't like it as well because she has to carry stuff up the stairs but I like it. I only spent a fraction of what you're talking about to do it myself.
Richard

 

[Thomas]

Dan, By no means are you insane.

The only things I sub out was concrete and septic work.

You be very surprise how capable your are and the knowledge you shall gain.

Buy a darn good camera and start a photo book.

A builder give me a little advice once,its not the material so much that cost when having a house built,its the labor that cost to build the house.

Good luck.

Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[TWINKLE_TOES]

Dan,

<font color=blue>Mr Twinkle_TOES,</font color=blue>

First time I've been called that, has a nice ring! Al works too.

I started with the cash from sale of another house, bought 5 acres a trailer house to live in and a bred heifer, and started pounding nails. My eyes were bigger than my pocket book and started building from paycheck to paycheck. When the house was water tight I was able to get home improvement loans. Mortage rates at that time were running from 9% to 11 %, same for home improvement. I was not able to compromise on how I wanted things, so not being able to afford them it took a lot of time. A good example was interior finish. I bought a thickness plane and 8,000 board feet of rough quarter sawn white oak from a mill in Maryland. This turned into doors, jams, kitchen cabinets and flooring, took forever. If I had it to do over again I would trade the dollars for the time and learn how to compromise and stay within my means. Also I would pay a little more attention to the family stuff. I have a nice house and it's all paid for but at a cost in time.

Hope my view of building helps.

Good Luck on whatever, sounds like you have a plan that works for you.

Mr. Twinkle Toes /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif A.K.A Al

 

[Estif]

May be a little late, but I'll throw my comments in, too.

I'm almost a year in my "temporary" dwelling, a metal building finished out inside to a 400 sqft apartment and a 600 sqft shop. Gotta keep the priorities straight! I've been more or less living here since the shell became watertight. Contracted out the septic and the concrete...got a crew of friends to help put up the metal shell between Christmas and New Year's, last year. Since then, it's been all my own two little hands. Just now finishing with a lot of interior stuff like cabinets and so on. In a few years I'll be doing the "real house", and I plan to do that about the same way.

For me, the whole project grew out of wanting to live out - way out - and a conviction that I ought not be in debt. Well, now I'm not, and I love it. As someone else mentioned, there is an element of proving something to myself, too.

That's one thing that is key, I think, in doing a job like this myself - I LOVE IT. Carpentry, plumbing, electrical, I love all of it. Working on the house is my R&R. I get home from work and go right into building.

Oh. One other key. At least most folks I talk to jump right on this point when I talk about the track I'm on. I'm not married. ;-)

Steve

 

[Bird]

Heck, Steve, if I wasn't married, I probably wouldn't be in debt either./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

 

[dmccarty]

Hey 44,

What ICF's did you use? Did you have any problems in the installation? Did you run the services through the exterior wall for power, water, sewer, etc? or did you build a stud wall? Did you do it all or subcontract out work? How large was the house? Is it as energy efficient as the marketing mavins suggest?

9/99 to 7/00 sure seems like a reasonably short period of time.

Thanks for the info!
Dan McCarty

 

[dmccarty]

You might be old tried and true type but your point is well taken. One of the tricks in putting up ICF or any concrete form I guess is making sure that the concrete flows throughout. I read that a vibrator should be used. But not to much vibrator. Ye need just the right amount of vibration.

I supposed the form material could rot away with time but I'm not sure it matters since I would still have a 4-6 inch think concrete wall reinforced with rebar.

One thing I do know is that building is about compromise. Unless you are rich you have to compromise. Its amazing, the wife says, "I want two more feet in the room." "Yes, Dear." Says I. I then figure out that the extra two feet in that room costs $6,000. Now what?

Compromise?

Later....
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

Hi Mr. Twinkle Toes,

I like the sound since it does have a nice ring!

I do appreciate the time vs money issue. I see it all the time. My problem is persuading the wifey aka, The Power That IS, that this house is NOT a dream house but an acceptable one. Right now I'm living in a 1250 square foot ranch house cookie cut in 1977. Quality is ok but MUCH better then the total $%^&*( that is being built in many areas around here by Big Name Developers. I just want to build an affordable 1800-1900 square foot house with some quality. Now the wife is looking for GraceLand!

T'ain't gonna happen.

So, on one hand I don't mind doing some of the work myself but that means adding time to the project. BUT, that means no loans since having to spend money AND time means you end up spending to much of both. So we would have to pay as we go.

Thus the quandry...

Thanks...
Dan

 

[MReeter]

Dan,My wife and I have lived in six different homes in the 14 years we've been married.The first 4 were houses we bought,fixed up,sold,taking profits and reinvesting right back into another place.The 5th was a new stick-built,sold,and finally building the house we now call home.We served as our own G.C. on the two new homes,but had to hire almost all the work done,except for a lot of finish work.I'm telling you,after 14 years of putting in a 9-10 hour day at work,then running home and working on a house into the wee hours of the morning,all weekends and all vacation time,I'm without a doubt, DONE.If you plan plan on building yourself,be prepaired for a great strain on any personal relationship you have.Building a home with a contractor is almost too much at times,let alone trying to do some things yourself.A fair rule of thumb for labor costs,get bids on all materials,excluding concrete,finish flooring,finish plumbing,and finish electrical.Your labor costs will be within a few hundred bucks of that total.At least in our part of the country.Good luck to you on what ever you decide.

 

[dmccarty]

We have thought of trying your approach or a similar one but it just won't work for us. We have two dogs and a 8.5 month old. Just no way we could live in a smaller place. We do have a Homeowners Association that prevents us moving out in a trailer. Now we own most of the lots so we have the votes so I think we could change the coventants but I really don't want to tick off my two neighbors. And the reality is that the trailer is just to small anyway.

So we went down the Modular Road to Home Building. We are at a fork on that trip and have to decide which way to go.

A few years ago, I toyed with the idea of bulding a garage studio but the Credit Union nixed that idea. I'm using a different bank now which is much more flexible on things. Maybe that is the route to take again.... Hmmmmm

Later....
Dan

 

[LarryT]

Dan, this is a little off the main topic but right on with your discussion about designs, especially software. Have you read "The Inmates Are Running The Asylum"? It is by Alan Cooper who is regarded the Father of Visual Basic. He makes a case that very few software programs are "designed" prior to writing code. Based on your comments about design, you'll love this book if you haven't already read it.

Larry...

 

[LarryT]

I too am preparing land to build a home on starting in the next couple of years (shop/barn next year, house later; priorities you know!). Like Dan, one of my main drivers is quality. The rather large, fairly new, and supposedly upscale house I live in now doesn't have a single square or plumb wall in it. Every door swings by itself. Every room is out of square by several inches. I bought it from the builder (who lived in it 9 years) reasoning that he would do a better job of his own house. WRONG! I can see why banks don't like to loan on amature projects (this guy was a plumbing contractor, not a carpenter). Having said that, I plan to build a lot of my own house and be the GC on the rest. How much I do will depend a lot on my status at the time, e.g. retired or not. I've done it before so I know how much work I'm getting in to. Haven't thought much about ICF until now but I certainly will going forward. What I have thought a lot about is various energy efficient aspects such as grey water recycling (for irrigation), geothermal and solar heating, radiant floor heating, local hot water heating, zone heating/cooling, point of use hot water heating, solar and wind power generation, natural (wind) well pumping to storage tanks, construction techniques that maximize efficiency, and so on. There is a magazine called Home Power that has lots of good ideas in it. I also get good ideas from Fine Homebuilding. And most importantly, right here at the Tractorbynet! Since I'll be building the house to spend the rest of my life in, I want it done my way and I'll plan for changes and upgrades from the get go. Any suggestions from the Tractorbynet clan will be most appreciated!

Ok, that's my soapbox! I'm very supportive of what you're doing Dan and we can compare notes along the way.

Larry...

 

[jfakerj]

I'm also in the very begining of the planing stage of building a new home. I think I'm going to go with propane(no gas line here). If I do that I will rent a tank from cenex. I have a heat pump in the house I'm in now which also gives me air conditioning. For air conditioning with gas heat I was thinking of going about 4' under ground with a very large pipe run out from the cold air return and back to the summer fan for distribution troughout the house via the heating ducts. This pipe would be at grade with a drain pipe at the lowest point to allow the drainage of any condensation in the pipe. I read something about this several years ago but can't remember the #s on this. It goes something like this. The ground temp. at xx' under ground is a constant 50 or 60 degrees. The warm air from the house is forced though the pipe and is cooled by the ground and return to the house to be used for cooling in the summer months. I need to run this by a heating specialist in this area to get the size of pipe needed for the volume.

My question is, has anyone heard of a system like this and also does anyone know where I might look to find out more about cooling using the ground temp.

Just trying to find cheap air conditioning for that 2 1/2 month summer here in Western WA.

What-ta-ya-think


Jerry

 

[LarryT]

Jerry, I mentioned that I'm considering geothermal heating/cooling in my last post. A recent issue of Fine Homebuilding did an article on such a system using burried pipe and a heat pump. Unfortunately I accidentally left the magazine in a hotel room. It was probably either Sept or Oct issue, last year (2000). As I recall, they trenched about 6 ft deep and laid a few hundred feet of PVC to get the maximum temp exchange. I'll continue to look for the article but you might try their website or the library.

Larry...

 

[jfakerj]

LarryT

So that's what geothermal cooling is. I didn't know what that kind of system was called. I'll try to find some more info on it.

Thanks for the help

Jerry

 

[LarryT]

Jerry, I looked at the Fine Homebuilding web site and found it. go to site http://www.taunton.com/fh/admin/backissue.htm and look at number 133 topics (Aug/Sep 2000). You can order the back issue. I'm going to order it myself.

Larry...

 

[MarkV]

Jerry,

I was always interested in the system you are thinking of. Seems like a simple way to help with cooling. As a passive system it would have its limits and you would not be lowering the humidity, as you would with an AC unit. Might be enough in your area, but not here in Georgia.

The geothermal unit Larry mentioned is a differnt beast. The coils of buried PVC are filled with liquid to transfer heat and then run through a heat pump. Geothermal will also work by pulling water out of one well and pumping back into another. Many electric utility companys will offer rebates for geotermal systems. The down side is $$$.

MarkV

 

[bpence]

Just a few comments and/or suggestions.

You're not insane for trying to build your own house, just a little crazy! We built our first house in the late 70's from clearing the trees to finishing the interior trim, with the only sub-contracted work being the foundation & cement work, electrical, heat, well, and septic. I did all of the rough and finish construction and did the plumbing. It took about 18 months to "basically finish" the house. Carpets were installed about 3-4 months after we got the occupancy permit. The last piece of interior trim was installed 1 day before the house went up for sale (3 years after we moved in).

Would I do it again? Never in a million years. Am I glad I did it? You bet and I'd never give the experience back. Kind of like the year Uncle Sam let me camp in the back country of SE Asia. It was an incredible learning experience for both my wife and I and it is true that what doesn't kill you will make you stronger. For 18 months my entire life was focused on building that house. After 8-10 hours a day at work, I'd head to the site, fire up the generator, and work 'til midnite or 1:00 AM 5 days a week. On weekends, I stayed at the site from Friday night until Sunday night, usually sleeping in the truck until the shell was closed up. The days I had subs on the site I usually took vacation days from work to make sure they did things the way I wanted them done and I didn't get short-changed on the work. I found I often had to be a real jerk to get the subs to finish jobs and even had to withhold payment to get work compelted. I didn't get a construction loan until the shell was weather tight (about 4-5 months into the build).

If you decide to build your own house, plan on not doing much else until the house is done. The rough construction was easy and lots of friends and relatives were helpful in pounding nails. When it came to the finish work, help was a lot harder to come by. If we were to ever build another new home, my wife and I have decided that we'd use a reputable builder and check the construction progress on a real regular basis (say every couple of days). Having seen everything from short-nailing studs to trying to save solder on pipe joints, you have to watch like a hawk.

If you decide you build yourself, good luck. It will be an experience you'll remember for the rest of your life.

Bob Pence