Brakes

Egon · Aug 7, 2004

Thanks Jinman but I will not be switching trucks as I like what I have and could not afford or even likely find a replacement 3500 in our area. Agreed that I should have a 3500.

I change the front pads myself. Use the medium range pads. Rear pads go to a brake shop as I am not that mechanically inclined and tend too have several tries at getting everything back in place. Got all the proper tools for it though and have done it. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

With full load was able to make the tires squeal when a little Bambi decided to use the road.

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

JerryG · Aug 7, 2004

Egon,
Have you tried different types of pads? I know several mailmen that drive their own vehicles on rural routes and they have gone to Carbon-Metallic brake pads. They all say that they have doubled or tripled the mileage between pad replacement.

RobertN · Aug 7, 2004

I do not know why, but the Dodge seems to go through front brakes a little fast. Mine were done at 30k, and are about do again. I think they may use a soft pad, but they seem to like rrotors turned each time too. Mine was about $250 to do at the Dodge shop, with employee rate(My Dad works Dodge parts ). Interesting thing is, they have a special thing to do the rotor turning while still on the truck.

There are suppossedly other longer lasting pads on aftermarket, as well as drilled rotors which are suppossedly better than factory. I have not investigated it though.

Junkman · Aug 7, 2004

Jinman...... Check with the dealer and see how much the OEM rotors cost. You might be surprised to find that they are the same cost or less the the auto parts store. I found this with my Explorer. Also, the quality of some of the replacement auto parts store aren't as good as the OEM quality so I have been told by a good friend that is a Dodge Service Manager. He has said that in certain instances, they have problems with the ABS when poor quality rotors are used. This was a while ago, and the quality of the imported rotors might have changed. I have had no reason to buy a rotor in a while and the rotors for my car are only available in OEM.

JerryG........Could you comment further on the Carbon Metallic pads. I am not familiar with them and would like to know more about them...... thanks

MicroPilot · Aug 7, 2004

( As always Bird is right. The antilock is on the rear wheels only.

Those are exactly the wires I was looking at yesterday when I was crawlin around under the back to find out where the line to the rear brakes had rusted through.

Thank you /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Egon )

I've always wondered why they are rear only. It would seem to me that you would want ABS on the front wheels to be able to maintain steering in a hard braking situation. Are the rear only to keep the back end from coming around in a panic stop?

Bird · Aug 7, 2004

( It would seem to me that you would want ABS on the front wheels to be able to maintain steering in a hard braking situation. )

Robert, you're in good company because that's a very common belief, but erroneous. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Your front brakes do more of the braking than the rear ones (one reason for disk brakes on the front before they became available for the rear). Most vehicles have more weight on the front axle than on the rear (and yeah, I know loaded trucks are different, and of course the Corvair and old rear engine Volkswagen was, too). If the front wheels lock up, in most cases, the vehicle will continue sliding straight, in the direction it was headed at the time they locked (a banked surface instead of a flat road may affect this to some extent). But if the rear wheels lock up, the back end will invariably slide to one side or the other. However, if the back wheels keep turning, they will follow the front end.

I know it's a little hard to believe, but personal experience will prove it. Now some folks also believe it's different with front wheel drive vehicles versus rear wheel drive, but it isn't. I've not only done a lot of reading, and experimenting with vehicles myself, and used to be in charge of the safety section for the police department, but I also once had the opportunity to visit the GM proving grounds in Michigan while they were training some Indiana State Troopers. They were on the skid pan (a wet part of what they call the "Black Lake"; a 30 acre slab of very flat, smooth asphalt). They were using a front wheel drive Buick with troopers driving and the trainer in the front passenger seat. She (yep, I said "she") had a button she could hit that would lock the rear wheels without affecting the front brakes. And it takes a pretty skilled driver to recover from the skid, even when the back wheels are only locked very briefly and then released.

One of the questions we used to ask of officers, in safety quizzes, was "if you only had brakes on one axle working, would you rather have front brakes or rear brakes?" Many, if not a majority, believe they would be better off with the rear brakes working, but in reality you'd rather have the front ones working.

Naturally, you're better off with the brakes on all 4 wheels working, and you're better off with antilock brakes both front and rear.

Egon · Aug 7, 2004

Micro pilot:

The truck has a trailer tow package which only has ABS on the rear. Apparently this is preferable when towing a trailer or so I was told.

Egon

Egon · Aug 7, 2004

Bird:

You can do that the front drive rear wheel lock on an icy road or parking lot up north here by applying the emergency brake.

On some TV shows illustrating driving techniques; if watched closely, you can see the skid being induced by using the emergency brake.

Please note-- only try it in an area with lots of room and no traffic.

Egon

jinman · Aug 7, 2004

( Thanks Jinman but I will not be switching trucks as I like what I have and could not afford or even likely find a replacement 3500 in our area. Agreed that I should have a 3500. )

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I tend to forget that I am in the middle of the pickup truck center of the universe and just because we have every size and shape known to man on almost every car lot, other parts of the country/world don't have the same situation.

I sure understand wanting to keep your truck that you are used to. I know all my truck's quirks and how to deal with most of them. Besides, every time you change vehicles, somebody is gonna make money off of you. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I went back and read my Service Manual after making my comment about rotor wear, and there is a limit to rotor thickness wear (of course!). What the book says is that a deep groove need not be a reason for rotor replacement if the rotor minimum thickness was within limits after machining. Each OEM rotor has the minimum thickness stamped on it near the center of the hub. You might look and see if they are still able to be turned according to that.

It's also funny that you need rear brakes and I've never worn out a single set of rear brakes on my truck. I had to have them replaced at 195k miles because I had a rear end bearing seal go out and soaked the right side brakes with oil. I had nearly 1/4" minimum of pad material on my rear brake shoes when that happened. Your camper and trailer must account for a lot more rear brake wear than my daily commute. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Junkman: Thanks for the tip on rotors. I'll check with the local Dodge dealer about the rotors when I get around to replacing them. If they aren't too much more, I'll probably just have them do the whole job anyhow.

Bird · Aug 7, 2004

Yep, Egon, it's actually easier on the front wheel drive to do the demonstrating, although I've also done it on rear wheel drive squad cars back in the '60s when we had manual transmissions and foot operated parking brake; just kick it in neutral, stomp the parking brake, and see where you wind up. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Did you ever do "bootleg" turns? You have to work fast with manual transmission, no power steering or power brakes, but doing 25-30 mph, stomp the clutch, shove the gear shift to neutral, stomp the parking brake, turn the steering wheel, and try to release the parking brake, stepping on the clutch at the same time, and shifting to low, then pour the coal to it. You can do a 180 and be spinning your wheels forward before you stop sliding backwards.

The lady I mentioned at GM, training the drivers, put on a little driving demonstration for us on the Black Lake on dry pavement. She took off, and got it up to 40-50 mph, swapped ends, running in reverse nearly wide open, swap back to forward, back to reverse, etc., just doing 180s without every slowing down. Of course she made a lot of tire squealing and smoke from the tires.

But to get back to the topic, I can't believe how frequently some are having to replace brake pads and/or shoes. I thought it was terrible when I wore out a set of brakes in 30,000 miles on a Studebaker with overdrive (freewheeling so no engine braking) in '58. I replaced the front pads on my '89 Chevy one ton dually at about 54,000, but they weren't really worn out, and the last set I replaced on one of my vehicles was on the '93 Ford Escort station wagon at 80,000 (but we'd towed it about 15,000 of that) and it really didn't need them yet, either. Our 2001 Ford Windstar now has 45,000 on the original pads.