Boy, but I hate poor engineering!

[StoneyFF]

<font color="blue">Well, had my first 'equipment failure' on my new attachments for my used TC35D...

The 72" Lands Pride Rotary Cutter has a clutch, but there's a bolt that holds the clutch to the gearbox... and it appears that they didn't put a jam nut on it or something... the nut simply fell off and then the bolt fell out and then the clutch fell off the shaft and hit the casing... No permanent damage done... just a little paint. Unfortunately, the way the bolt and clutch and cover are engineered, it's all but physically impossible to get in there and hold the bolt while tightening the nut, much less get a jam nut on there after the first nut. It's the worst thing passing for engineering that I've ever seen.

Just goes to show... I trusted the dealer's advice on the relative value of the brand... Just because I didn't know much about the specific attachments, so accepted his judgement instead of using my own general mechanical ability... I should have looked over the design for general stupidity <sigh>...

Now they'll have to come out and reinstall the thing... and I'll watch him like a hawk to make sure he does it righ this time!!! In retrospect, I know that it wasn't installed properly, so I need to not substitute faith for good judgement when it comes to the Tractor Dealer!

Anyone else have one of these Rotary Mowers and know what I'm talking about? I'll try to take some pictures and post here so you can see what I'm talking about.
</font>
<font color="maroon">Stoney</font>
<font color="red">{All engineers should have to spend a month a year fixing that which they design... guaranteed to make things easier on the mechanics!!!}</font>

 

[KiotiJohn]

I don't have that mower, but as to your point about checking behind the dealer, that's something EVERY person should be doing. Dealers are sometimes overrun with work, and trying to get out product as fast as possible and things are missed. I've read about bolts in loaders falling out, wrong grade of shear pin placed, and leaks of all kinds out of the box. You're right about trusting oneself first. However, many people are just not mechanical and therefore have to rely on the integrity of others to do the job right. Unfortunately, integrity of doing one's job seems to be lessening every day. Sorry to hear of your troubles, but glad there's no real damage. John

 

[Soundguy]

Landpride is a decent machine.. just seems like the dealer shortcutted a bit.

That bolt location is probably the location of the original shear bolt. I'm also surprised there isn't a retaining clip to keep the slip clutch on there. My stub into the gearbox on my KK has that ring.. that way if you sheared a bolt ( no slip clutch ) the shaft couldn't fly off.. but merely freewheeled.

In any case.. try a locknut.. or even green threadlocker from loctite.. it is made to be installed after assembly.. good vibration resistance.

In fairness though.. those things do vibrate alot. I have found nuts missing on my shear bolts before.. and I either double nut.. or use lock washers... just sometimes happens.

good luck

Soundguy

 

[have_blue]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( All engineers should have to spend a month a year fixing that which they design... guaranteed to make things easier on the mechanics!!! )</font>

Well said Stoney. I can think of some grease fittings on my Woods that are such a pain to get to that many owners may just skip them. When it fails, the manufacturer will probably refuse to back up their product because it wasn't greased.

Sorry for your headaches, and hope it works out for ya.

 

[Wannafish]

Yeah, but how do you REALLY feel? /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[normde2001]

It doesn't sound as if this has anything to do with manufacturers or engineering, only improper assembly by the dealer. If the bolt is under the driveshaft safety shield all you gotta do is unhook the back end of the shield, slide it forward and replace the bolt with a locking/jamnut.

 

[nomad]

Most of the "poor engineers" are the dealers who don't understand the mechanics a little. Also, in this farm machinery field, "density/number of engineers" is much less than that in other fields. Many of farm machinery manufacturers don't hire an engineer or two. So, instead of accusing engineers, manufacturers should be accused for their putting their noses into technical things without a little engineering knowledge. Finally, even if it's a fault of an engineer at design department of a farm machinery manufacturing factory, that engineer can not be accused by the end users. End users can accuse only the manufacturer/owner or the dealer as the dealers are responsible to the end users only because it is the dealer who is taking his/her money of end user. I think, like everywhere, here in this field too, there are many misconceptions.

 

[_RaT_]

You said what I was going to say. I thought about this post just a little thinking, "hmm, is this a engineering issue or a assembly problem with a nut that was never correctly tightened". I use nylock nuts for most locking things. If it's really important, I also use Loctite.

 

[Soundguy]

I'll add to that that engineers usually don't get the last say on issues.

Management tells engineering that they want 'x' product. Engineering works it up , and says it will need these 'y' specs.. etc. Sales gets ahold of it and marks out and changes half the stuff they don't like.. it goes back to engineering for redesign.. and in the end.. upper management determine what gets done.

At the place I work at doing sound engineering it is the same way. The upper management decides to build a new venue.. asks us what it needs to have/what needs to be done to implement a sound system.. ( specific structural and geometric requirements.. etc ).. we submit it.. and then 'house-keeping' ( our department that controlls the 'look' of all the structures that we construct) will reject it.. and then it gets built their way.. It then doesn't sound as good as it could.. and they come to us and ask why... we tell them it is built wrong.. they ask us how to retro it. Starts a long process of half fixes that takes years to get right.. when it could have all been done correctly if the engineers had any say. In fact.. the only time I see an engineers recomendations get followed is when it comes to safety / product liability.. and then that is only cause the insurance carrier's rep or the legal dept pushes for it.... talk about backwards strategy...

Soundguy

 

[RonR]

We used to have a saying (when I worked in Engineering) that we spoke to the shop frequently.

"How about building it per the drawing for once?"

Ron

 

[nomad]

You "sound" real, good. And the worst is there are some dealers who think they know much more than engineers and they force the owner of manufacturing company what/how to do - the owner listens to these dealers because them these dealers are the buyers and products are usually technically problematic because of the requests of these "wise" people. If there are someones to be accused due to technical problems, they are the dealers and owners of manufacturing companies.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blueclass=small">( We used to have a saying (when I worked in Engineering) that we spoke to the shop frequently.

"How about building it per the drawing for once?"
)</font>

You an me both...

Get this.. that reminded me of a very specific incedent that happened a few years ago. We needed a heavy circular rotating platform fabbed ( 7/8 steel plate ). This thing had brackets on it to bolt it to a frame. We had an excelent shop drawing.. very clear.. all measured.. scaled perfectly.. etc. spec sheet included. Sent it to an outside machine shop as ous was not setup to handle that .. and it came back.. looked great.. when the crew went to install it.. all the brackets were welded on 180" out.. making the bolt holes blind.. in other words.. the brackets only fit in place after the bolt was in place.. yet the bolt had to go thru the bracket.. etc.

Hard to describe here.. but the machine shop merely attatched the bracket, looking at the the lines and angles of the bracket to the plate/... without respect to the brackets being on completely backwards.. and being unuseable..

Caused a big ruckus.. was a few thousand dollars worth of work.. and they said the plans were flawed. We called in an outside machinest.. handed him the paperwork and asked him to look at the plan only and tell us where the bolts went.. in about 10 seconds he indicated the correct way ( opposite of what the machine shop did ).. they got mad.. we got mad.. boss said he was only paying half.. they counter-offered this and that. I don't know if we ended up paying full or not.. but in the end.. our shop had to cut the brackets off and re-weld them on... and we never used that other shop again.

the kicker was it was nice clean plans.. ... Even I could read them.. and I'm not a ME... ( CE technically.. though I spend more hours per week doing sound engineering.. etc. pays better to... go figure..)

Soundguy

 

[Villengineer]

As a "joke" we have put MIL-SPEC MITTP (Make It To The Print) on drawings before.

 

[Egon]

Nomad; you come just in time. There's another thread involving mower blades that could use the new one you designed. Good chance for you to get your product on the market.

Egon

 

[nomad]

Which thread? That "high-lift?" thread? This thread shows that those companies like Landpride, Craftsman, etc have changed their standarts from "high-lift" to "medium-lift" and this shows I had been right about that such designs can NOT be made - You, Egon, you are an engineer and you have not understood yet what I had educated someones here. You are missing the points. Have fun.

 

[slowrev]

You got it right Soundguy!
And there is always the "can't you shave more off the manufacturing cost". Use a grade 5 bolt here instead of an 8 and save $20,000 in the course of a year, It will make it thru the warranty period ok. Engineering today is more about making the lowest cost product that will do the job, than about servicing convenience or quality that exceeds the minimum design specs.

 

[Egon]

I am not an engineer Nomad.

Egon

 

[_RaT_]

Have you played one in a movie?

 

[RonR]

I stay in Holiday Inn Expresses--does that count?

Ron

 

[_RaT_]

Yes, it does.