Boxscraping Basics

[Harv]

You guys came up with such good information on floating the bucket, I just gotta ask you for a little advice on using the boxscraper, too.

I was totally impressed when my broker guy (Miracle Mike) demonstrated grading with the box scraper. While driving in a circle he gently lowered the blade to the ground and immediately smoothed off the soil to a mirror finish (well... you know what I mean). Then, while continuing in his circle he raised the box a tad and the scooped up dirt was re-deployed in a nice even layer.

When he left, I couldn't wait to try this out on a stretch of my "tractor path". It started out beautifully, leaving an immaculate, smooth surface. When the box was full, I realized my folly -- this time I am not driving in a circle. What do I do with my box o' dirt now? I wound up just dumping the load and then using the blade backwards, with dubious results. I had to experiment to get just the right height so the rear-facing blade wasn't digging and the front blade did "just enough" spreading.

Later I was using the box scraper to begin clearing what used to be a small creek (prelude to a culvert here). Same problem -- it did a marvelous job of scraping a nice, clean channel, but then I had a box of dirt I didn't know what to do with.

Pretty basic stuff, huh? /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

I hope I don't wear you guys out with these kinds of beginner questions. Until I get that book that was recommended earlier, you're my best (and so far the friendliest) source of infromation.

 

[WVBill]

You're not alone, Harv. I'm all ears and questions too. Got my B6100D w/ FEL and box scraper about the same time as you. Much lighter set-up, though. Tried to use the box scraper to scrape the top layer of sod off a new planting bed. Couldn't figure out the right top-link angle to make the scraper take a bite into the sod. Ended up cutting a seam with a shovel and using the FEL to peel up the sod.
Hope to learn from the responses to this thread. Thanks for starting it.

Second question for the experts: Can I use the leveling link to raise or lower one side of the box scraper and, making passes in opposite directions, cut a "V"-shaped trough?

 

[Kelvin]

Bill,
If the dirt is too hard then you'll have to bust it up with the box blade's drop down teeth (sometimes called scratifiers or something like that) before the box blade will do a good job of scraping it up. With your B6100 you'll probably want to use the highest setting that still allows the teeth to be below the level of the scraping blade. If you drop the teeth to a lower position then your tractor may not be able to bust up the dirt.

You might be able to scrape a thin layer of hard compacted dirt without busting it up first. If the soil is really hard then sometimes the box blade just scrapes over the top picking up very little.

I would advise not using the loader to attempt to bust up hard dirt (sounds like you're already following that advise).

Kelvin

 

[Bird]

Bill, in answer to your second question, yes, you can use the leveling adjustment on the lower links to tilt the blade to one side to dig a channel. And then you guys are just experiencing what we've all run into; getting the job done right with a box blade requires frequent adjusting of the top link to tilt the blade forward or backwards, and adjusting of the lower link to tilt it to one side or the other. Hence the popularity of the hydraulic tip 'n tilt setups (wish I could afford to do it to mine)./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Bird

 

[hayden]

Although I've only used my box scraper a few times so I'm hardly an expert, here's my understandig of how to use it.

The idea is to keep the box loaded with dirt, nominally about 50% full. As you sweep an area, it cuts off the high spots (loading more dirt into the box), and fills the low spots (by dropping dirt from the box). The whole purpose of the box is to be a dirt reservoir - otherwise it would be a scraper blade.

As you can imagine, this works great in loose soil, but not well in hard pack. That's why the scarifiers exist. They dig in and break up the soil so it can be collected and deposited by the box.

The problem you have is what to do with the reservoir of soil at the end of the sweep. I think the technique is to gradually raise the box as you come to the end of the run such that the box empties just at the edge of the area you are scraping. It takes practice to get good at it.

 

[gerard]

Kind of depends what you're trying to accomplish. First remember the more weight you can put on the box blade itself the better it's going to dig. (I have 2 125lb steel weights AND put a 150lb barbell set on the back of the blade). Also as the box fills it loses some of it's down pressure and will DIG IN less. (The extra dirt causes the blade to "ride up" and reduces the down pressure). If you're grading an area by taking out dirt then when the box gets full just drive to a dump spot, raise it and leave a pile, then keep grading that way and dumping the pile. (I graded from front to back of my barn which was 120 feet by 10 feet wide. took out about 12 inches which was quite a pile. Bottom line is practice and experiment and remember the slower you go the more it will bite in.

 

[gordon]

Harv I think the boxblade is one of the hardest to learn but once you do---watch out. One thing that is key to using the box is practice, practice, practice oh yea did I metion that it takes alot of tractor hours to get the hang of the box. One thing that is key to using the box is the three point height adjustment and being able to move it ever so slightly. Another key thing is the toplink adjustment to set the angle of the box. Sounds simple right---not!

Of course soil conditions will have alot to do with the way the box is used. If you have very hard compacted dirt and want to loosen it up of course use the rippers on the box guess that goes without saying.

If you want to cut just alittle off the top its best to have the box pretty level front to back so the box doesn't dig to deep two things are key here the toplink adjustment and also the 3pt height as to how deep you want to go. Remember at times it takes what seems like a minute for the 3pt to move up or down when boxblading but the key is move it in small increments or else you will raise the box to high or be cutting to deep.

If you want to cut deeper shorten the toplink. What this does is put the front blade of the box at a steeper angle going down and depending on your box and how the rippers are set they will be also cutting before the blade allowing to go deeper as well.

If you want to level you can make the top link longer so the front blade isn't touching and your riding on the backblade you can still move dirt but if you lower your 3pt you will be dragging and slowly raise it you will put out a nice level run of dirt.

If your not good with a box and want to look like a pro invest in a hydraulic toplink---best thing since sliced bread. If you can't afford one then you'll be making alot of fine adjustments with the toplink for different operations. With the hydraulic toplink you can go from deep cutting to cutting to leveling out with the backblade with out stopping in one sweeping run just by changing the toplink and leaving the 3pt height alone.

Guess thats some of the basics the key is toplink adjustment and small adjustments on the 3pt level. Just takes time thats all. Don't worry if you can't cut a perfect line with the box it takes hours and hours to be a hot cat with a box. Some days I'm a hot cat with a box and it seems some other days I'm not even tepid!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Good luck
Gordon

 

[glennmac]

Will a boxblade work in soft, moist, clingy soil to smooth out ruts, wheelspin gouges and tread tracks?

 

[gordon]

Digging in is one problem that I don't have with my box. The dirt will be running over and hitting the tires if I let it dig that deep on a pass. Sometimes the dirt is so packed in the box that when I raise it at the end of a run it just stays there have to drop the box to loosen it up so it will fall out. So many different kinds of dirt in this great USA.
Gordon

 

[gordon]

Yes the box can do that. Just lenghen the toplink so your not cutting just riding on the rear blade and lower the 3pt to cut down the high spots. Or you could just put the 3pt in the float position as well.

A rake also works great for working the soft muddy soil to remove ruts and tire tracks. I use them both in grading and leveling.
Gordon

 

[gerard]

Not too well, you'll pretty much scrape up the muddy stuff but it doesn't "flow" out the back well because it clings together too well. One thing I learned the hard way was it's a lot easier to do your work in DRY dirt. I tried some of my initial grading after some rain and just made a mess. After that I never even tried until things had dried out and it was like night and day. (Of course that assumes the area you want to work DRIES out once in awhile

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>Re: soft, moist, clingy soil</font color=blue>. I guess that depends on your definition. Soft, slightly moist seems to work best for me, but if this black clay I've got is a little too moist, i.e., wet, you can forget it. It sticks to everything including a box blade and you can't shake it loose. You have to use a shovel or hoe to dig it off the blade.

Bird

 

[TomG]

I lower the scarifiers one notch to cut sod. After cutting, the sod comes off with the blade, although the box fills up fast. It takes a lot of traction to pull the scarifiers through sod, and with my turfs, I sometimes have to make several passes.

A shallow v-trench could be cut by using the 3ph levelers. I mostly use the levelers when building or maintaining a crown on a road.

 

[TomG]

I find that the first thing I have to do to make a smooth grade is cure any bumps and holes that are larger than the tractor wheels. Unless that is done, the scraper keeps dumping its load or digging new holes. It's handy if bumps are near holes. It's handy if bumps are near holes, because the rear cutter can be used to cut bumps into holes. Otherwise, material has to be brought in with either the loader or box.
Of course, the same problem exists at the top and bot++++of hills, but there's no alternative except to adjust with the 3ph.

As mentioned, getting the right 3ph adjustment at the right time takes a lot of practice. I suppose cutting, dragging and spreading can be controlled on the fly with the 3ph. However, it's far easier and much better with a hydraulic top link.

There have been a few discussions on scraper use in the archives here and on CTB.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Have any of you guys used box blades for landscaping? I install septic systems and need a better and faster method to level the land prior to seeding! The front loader takes awhile and it is very difficult to obtan a level surface. Any suggestions?

 

[Will]

I've found that it is pretty easy to peel off the dirt from the high spots and dump it, more or less evenly, in the low spots. Where I run into problems is when I'm trying to flatten out an area and I've got a combination of hard dirt (freshly scraped high spots) and soft dirt (all the stuff I've dumped). The soft stuff just doesn't want to stay still. I've gotten my best results by repeated grading on the diagonal and by lightly skimming the surface while going backwards - it's just easier for me to keep the height right while going backwards.

 

[Billc]

Best advice I've gotten on using the box blade is to go slowly. This past Spring I cleared an area for a pole storage barn (40x60) and a fifth wheel house (16x40). I hopped on the tractor and went to work. Within minutes the fella with a big CAT track loader I'd hired to clear a path for my fence line stopped me. He told me I was using my box blade all wrong. I had always thought by going a little faster the box blade worked better. He proved me wrong in a big way. He hopped on my tractor, put the tractor in low 2 (I have a gear drive tractor) at just above idle and accomplished more 5 minutes than I'd done in 45 minutes. So go slowly! Much better results.

As for getting good with the box blade, I agree with everyone else, know the basics and then you just have to use it alot.

 

[TomG]

Here, in ag & logging country, dealers say 'Box scraper? Oh yeah, landscapers use them.' Scrapers are a pretty standard tool for leveling land--anything better gets real expensive. However, when I hear 'prepare for seeding,' I think of a landscape rake. I don't have one, so I'm guessing that a scraper is better at leveling and moving dirt around, and a rake is better at smoothing and preparing a seed bed.

I also hear that dragging an I-beam with chain link fence trailing behind is pretty good at smoothing and preparing.

 

[Bird]

Jon, the father/son team that installed my parents' septic system had backhoe/loader they dug with and moved dirt back with, but then they also had an old Brown tractor with a big, heavy box blade that they used for the smoothing, leveling, etc. and they did a really good job. Like a lot of things I guess, if you have enough experience, it's amazing what you can do, and these two have been doing that kind of work regularly for over 20 years, so they're good and they're fast. And of course, my brother and I have used my tractor and box blade for all the landscaping we've done (since I don't have some of the other nice implements like a rake); we're just slower at it.

Bird

 

[Harv]

Holy Cow!!! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

I go camping for a couple of days and you guys set some sort of record for the number of posts over a single weekend. Ye Gods!!! I was up half the night trying to catch up with you.

I loved it. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

The last thing I did before I jumped into the car was to start this thread, and boy has my question been answered. I think Gordon summed it up the best -- especially that part about "practice, practice, practice". Somehow I knew that there would be some practice involved.

Now that it is much clearer to me what a boxscraper is intended to be used for, I think my ditch-digging project might be a little in the using-a-screwdriver-for-a-chisel category. I will still try tilting the blade and making a V-cut, but clearly this is not the primary function of the scraper. The rippers, however, do sound like the way to start, no matter how I wind up digging the ditch.

The good news is that besides the ditch-digging I have a lot of ground-smoothing to do, and with all the tips posted here I can hardly wait to get back up to the property and "get to work". /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif