Biodiesel

[MapleLeafFarmer]

Is all diesel sold in U.S. biodiesel?

I live on the border of US / Canada and in summer I use Cenex Ruby Red that I believe is 20% biodiesel. No complaints as I use enough to keep it fresh and DPF seems to regen every 27 hrs or so and never had water in separator. So no complaints and cheaper than from Canada.

For winter though, I read bio diesel can hold up to 20x more water than regular diesel and since I use much less in winter so hard to keep "fresh" I plan to use Premium Diesel from a Shell station in Canada that is "bio" free.

Looking around the US village just south of me (Cenex and Holiday) both seem to only have bio diesel so wondering if non-bio even exists?

 

[Shaneard]

Not all diesel sold in the US is bio.

 

[dodge man]

Its kind of a regional thing. In my area I think almost all of the stuff at the pump is.

 

[Rebeldad1]

Wouldnt know where to get bio diesel around here

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

Its kind of a reginal thing. In my area I think almost all of the stuff at the pump is.

that's what i am seeing too. only two stations in town and both seem to be only bio.... I ask the people at the front counters and they have no clue. I go to Cenex and Holiday websites and no answer there either.

Diesel price in Canada almost 20% more but at least I know for the little fuel I use in winter I can get premium w/o bio

 

[ruffdog]

Do they have to label it as bio? Like B10 or B20?

 

[TerryR]

There was a small co-op in town that provides it to it's members, though I don't know if it's still operational. The nearest places that sell it are two hours drive away.

 

[Cougsfan]

I had a Motorhome that was based on a Mercedes Sprinter diesel that I drove around the USA a couple of times. A tag next to the fuel fill spout of the Mercedes warned you not to use over 10% bio-diesel. In some areas (mainly the Midwest) I could only find B20 diesel (20% bio). So I was forced to use it if I wanted to leave their town. In most other parts of the county I never saw any bio-diesel. It could be they are not required to state the bio-blend in some States(?)

As a side note: my neighbor is a road equipment maintenance mechanic for Washington State Dept of Transportation. He says they have a real dilemma with bio-diesel. State law forces them to run a very high percentage of bio-diesel in the State-owned rigs, but many of the providers of their equipment void the warranty if you use over 10% bio-diesel. He says the reason is clear why the manufacturers void the warranty. They have tons of problems with clogged filters and/or injectors as well as other problems that most commercial diesel operations don't have. He attributes the problems to a couple of things: 1) a waxy substance that may precipitate out of the fuel if the rigs sets unused for a long while, and 2) a high variability in the quality of the bio-diesel depending on the source. It is clear to him that in addition to Bio-diesel and petroleum based diesel not being equivalents; one bio-diesel source may not be equivalent to another source.

 

[dodge man]

The pumps in my area have a sticker that is kind of vague. I don’t remember it exactly but something like MAY CONTAIN BIO FUELS UP TO 20%. My understanding is it’s B5 but no one knows for sure.

 

[ruffdog]

From the Federal Trade Commission.....it seems B5 or less does not need labeling...more than B5 it does.

Complying with the FTC Fuel Rating Rule | Federal Trade Commission

 

[jbrumberg]

".... They have tons of problems with clogged filters and/or injectors as well as other problems that most commercial diesel operations don't have. He attributes the problems to a couple of things: 1) a waxy substance that may precipitate out of the fuel if the rigs sets unused for a long while, and 2) a high variability in the quality of the bio-diesel depending on the source. It is clear to him that in addition to Bio-diesel and petroleum based diesel not being equivalents; one bio-diesel source may not be equivalent to another source."- Cougsfan.

I believe that non-ammended bio-diesel has a much higher cloud/gel temperature point than petro-diesel. Our town's small food coop tried selling it when it was first introduced; much to the unhappiness of those who purchased it with the first taste of Winter cold. They did not sell it for long.

 

[5030]

After a couple grand in repairs (parts, I did the labor myself) to my diesel pickup truck. I avoid bio anything like the plague and still add biocide anyway. Once you experience microbial growth in your fuel system and the resulting repairs (and labor if you cannot do it yourself), you too will avoid it. The 'french fry' smell is fine. The cost to remediate isn't.

Pozz on B anything.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

The pumps in my area have a sticker that is kind of vague. I don稚 remember it exactly but something like MAY CONTAIN BIO FUELS UP TO 20%. My understanding is it痴 B5 but no one knows for sure.

thats what I am finding in northern MN as well. Ruby Red at the Cenex says up to 20% but their website does not give specifics and people inside the service center have no clue.

I would like to buy it as it costs about 20% less than diesel in the closest Canadian village to me but in winter for the little I use I think I will stick with premium Cdn. diesel that is more expensive but no bio in. In the summer where I use enough not to have to worry about stale fuel and temp. swings making condensation which plugs filters and can lead to algae then back to buying in the US.

thanks

 

[Jkott]

Depends on the state. Minnesota state law requires #2 diesel to be at least 20% bio from April until September. During the winter it is still required to be at least 5%.

#1 is exempt from the bio requirement.


Minnesota Biodiesel | Minnesota Department of Agriculture

I’ve had diesel trucks and equipment for 15 years in Minnesota, and I’ve never had a fuel problem. I buy from high volume stations, make sure I run down my tanks in the tractor and X, and if I have any summer fuel left in my cans come fall, they cycle through the truck while it’s still warm. Any fuel in the fall gets White bottle Power Service.

If you are going to stockpile fuel in the upper Midwest or Canada, I’d suggest buying it in the winter and stockpile winter blend. It will be good year round.

 

[Jkott]

Now that I think about it, I had one Bio Diesel related issue. The fuel tank cap gasket on my 2012 LS made New Holland Boomer tractor swelled from the bio when the 20 mandate went in. It took NH 4 years to come up with a seal that tolerated the state mandated bio requirement.

Newer vehicles should be fine, but anything older than 201x could have an issue with some portion of the field system, from the lines, gaskets, or seals.

Since it’s a state mandate, they don’t give a **** if your vehicle is compatible so you’ll probably have to upgrade your fuel system to tolerate it, or find only #1 diesel somewhere.

 

[MHarryE]

Jkott beat me to it - Minnesota diesel is required to be bio - supporting the farmers who are tariffed out of foreign markets but the law did come in a decade before the new tariffs. The first year was about 2004/2005 time frame and brought major winter problems, enough they dropped the requirement until the fuel companies got things straightened out. I had a test fleet of 7 machines running 24/7 during the winter and we were changing filters daily. We worked directly with Flint Hills refinery in the Twin Cities. Now that I’m retired and living/farming in Northern MN, I haven’t had any problem. Our suppliers here say their diesel comes from Flint Hills but I’m over 100 miles east of the Manitoba border. Holiday stations used to have a tie-in with Koch Bros, owners of Flint Hills Resources, but since being bought by a Canadian company in 2017 I don’t know if buying at Holiday means Flint Hills fuel anymore. Anyway, being located in Minnesota and living with dead diesels along the highways that winter gave them incentive to get it right. Being an oil seed producer, I’m probably more forgiving than most.

 

[5030]

Depends on the state. Minnesota state law requires #2 diesel to be at least 20% bio from April until September. During the winter it is still required to be at least 5%.

#1 is exempt from the bio requirement.


Minnesota Biodiesel | Minnesota Department of Agriculture

I’ve had diesel trucks and equipment for 15 years in Minnesota, and I’ve never had a fuel problem. I buy from high volume stations, make sure I run down my tanks in the tractor and X, and if I have any summer fuel left in my cans come fall, they cycle through the truck while it’s still warm. Any fuel in the fall gets White bottle Power Service.

If you are going to stockpile fuel in the upper Midwest or Canada, I’d suggest buying it in the winter and stockpile winter blend. It will be good year round.

Profoundly glad I don't live there. Bio diesel has a penchant for growing microbes when it sits and I found that out the hard way, to the tune of a grand in repairs and I did all the grunt labor myself.

The pain lingers long after the french fry smell had gone.......

Nothing better than red slime in your filters and delivery system. Nasty stuff. Ruins lift pumps, injector pintles and other injection components.

As a precaution now, I always use a biocide in stored fuel. Once bitten twice shy. Biocide plus Archoil AR 5000 fuel additive.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

Well..... with it going to -36 tonight with wind.... and since I really only have 2 choices of MN Bio diesel or Manitoba non Bio.... I chickened out and drained the tanks and will take delivery of some non bio. to get me through to the warmer spring weather. Then back to my MN source I think.

Prices in Manitoba 22% higher which sucks but I get choice of regular diesel or premium diesel both without bio in it.
I just chickened out and didn't want to risk at my age having to do maintenance in this weather in the field over a few bucks a tankful.

Maybe if it was for vehicles I used a lot more and turned tanks more frequently in winter I would stay but for tractors which sit a lot of the winter I chickened out. Biodiesel which can hold 20% more water than reg. diesel was just too risky for me in cold weather.

 

[ruffdog]

Even with additives, my summer fuel would cloud up at zero degees F. so I siphoned fuel out of the toolcat and dumped in a few jugs of treated winter fuel that stays clear at zero.

 

[Jkott]

Profoundly glad I don't live there. Bio diesel has a penchant for growing microbes when it sits and I found that out the hard way, to the tune of a grand in repairs and I did all the grunt labor myself.

Curious how long yours sat before having the algae issue. Many people have tried to convince me to get a bulk tanks at my cabin, but I don’t feel I use it fast enough to justify it. A rotation of 3 five gallon cans is more than sufficient for me to have both enough capacity and be able to cycle through it for the seasons without sitting too long.

While the winter/summer/bio blend hasn’t caused me issues yet especially for my pre tier 4 equipment, but fuel quality in my truck is a huge issue. I monitor my soot levels and regen intervals, and Kwik Trip diesel in Minnesota has been the best/longest interval. Holiday diesel is generally okay, but it seems it has issues during the seasonal bio switch over. Fleet farm.... a couple of them are just okay, but one station that is the cheapest and ran great in my 2006 pre DPF truck great, I just simply can’t use in my 2016 truck. The DPF goes into regen in less than half the miles if I use their diesel. Considering it takes around a gallon of diesel to regen, it gets annoying when it happens every 300 miles instead of 600.

I’d love to buy a years worth of fuel when it’s at the cheapest part of the season, but it’s simply not possible with all the Diesel lens related issues, and the cost of any fuel related issue.

Anyone cut their summer blend with kerosene? It’s not really economical since it costs 50% more than diesel, but it might be a lot easier than draining tanks when it’s already cold and you forgot when it’s warm. Haven’t done it myself yet.