Big brother is watching.

[canoetrpr]

Why did you buy a Kubota instead of a Kioti in the first place?
Why did you buy Hondas instead of Hyundias?

Very rational questions Ray.

On Kioti vs. Kubota: The reputation that Kubota has built up for many years building reliable equipment is stellar. Kioti was still very much a new kid on the block 18 mo ago when I decided to purchase. There was only one Kioti dealer within driving distance and he didn't inspire much confidence in me. Fast forward 18 mo. and they have made strides locally. One more dealer and he seems really really good. The brand is starting to be recognised up here as well which is something I considered. 18mo ago everybody you talked to knew what Kubota was so resale value was good and few knew what Kioti was. This is slowly changing.

Something else actually gives Kioti and advantage over Kubota (only in Canada) today vs 18mo go. That is, it appears that Kioti dealers up here are getting the benefit of the weaker US dollar. Kubota Canada is a separate company from Kubota USA and hence has not changed prices that dealers pay for the machine. Kioti has no local company here. Dealers here deal with Kioti USA and pay in US dollars. The net result is that something like a DK40 is about 8K less than a say a GL3940.

Ironically, one of the many reasons I decided to go with Kubota was that there were more than enough dealers around that if it turned out and I was unhappy with service for some reason, that I could just go elsewhere.

Honda vs. Hyundai. Hyundai was frankly no where near Honda wrt. reputation for reliability back in 99 when I purchased. Designs were pretty boring too. In 2007 I would have no trouble picking Hyundai over Honda (and in fact have considered getting a Santa Fe at somepoint to replace my 99 Accord. Like the V6 on the Santa Fe vs. V4 on the CRV).

Frankly I still consider Kioti to not be the same level of brand recongnition as JD and Kubota are for example but they are growing rapidly and the products seem great.

Overall I still love my L3400 and hope to be able to find a reasonable dealer that I have confidence in locally. I'd much rather spend $7k on a backhoe for my current tractor than loose several thousand trading in for something else at this point which will probably not do much more than my current machine does.

 

[RayMunising]

Kioti was still very much a new kid on the block 18 mo ago when I decided to purchase.

I must be getting old. When it comes to cars or tractors if it hasn't been around for 20+ years it doesn't have a track record.

 

[canoetrpr]

I'll reword.. Kioti was and is still the new kid on the block.

Does take a long time to build a reputation. Hyundai is a good example of how a company with a sub-par reputation has managed to turn it around in 10 or so years.

Note that Kioti is doing something that Hyundai did which contributed to them being considered seriously - which is offering longer warranties then the competitors.

 

[Lockport]

I'll reword.. Kioti was and is still the new kid on the block.

Does take a long time to build a reputation. ,,,

With the auto industry, they say if you can survive the North American market for 10 years, you are in! Hence, Hyundai. Suddenly KIA is on the scene (owned by Hyundai) and to stay, we must assume. In fact, they bought the Lotus Elan toolset from Lotus and word was they were to bring in a two seater, mid-engine for $20k. Unfortunatly, it materialized in South Korea, but not here. Remember the nifty Russian Niva 4X4's with the Benz like windshield wipers on the headlights? They looked great but 4-5 years later they were all falling apart from rust. Lada (the parent company of Niva) Skoda, Yugo, Trebant (nope, we never had Trebants), none of them made it.

Kioti's are a promising competitor. the older LB1914 is a small machine that has a lift capacity that many BX owners would love to have. I think it is 2000lbs. Then they came out with the CK's and took on that Kubota like appearance. With the new BX's more rounded shape, it is hard to say who is following who. As the quality of these and, say, the Chinese tractors improve and style becomes more appealing the question is jumping on the band wagon in that window just when they realize they are in the mainstream but not yet a dominate player.

Perhaps, why noy a Kioti insteadof a Kubota is exactly the question here.

 

[DiezNutz]

Perhaps, why noy a Kioti insteadof a Kubota is exactly the question here.

Ehh... no. A fair question perhaps, but neither the question here nor the question that belongs here. There's a whole other Kioti forum just for that

 

[RayMunising]

Whatever you decide to do I wish you the best Canoetrpr. I hope Kubota does right by you and allows you to work with the dealer of your choice. I also hope Kubota addresses any dealer behavioral issues that may exist both with your purchasing dealer and the "if you didn't buy it here we won't service it" attitude. It reflects very poorly on Kubota and they should take steps to end it.

It's also not clear to me that the representative of Kubota-Canada acted in an entirely professional manner. If Kubota-Canada does not provide you with a satisfactory solution I would not hesitate to bump it up a level. Don't underestimate the desire of a company that has spent many years building a solid reputation to take action to maintain that reputation. Particularly if the source of the problem lays within the ranks of the company.

 

[twodogs]

Are you talking warranty service or any type of service?

Why would anyone buy a long term expensive piece of equipment from a company that allows that attitude from its dealer network? Things happen. Dealers go out of business. You may move. Your dealership can change hands and the new owner could be a real jerk. The mechanics at your dealer may not know what they're doing (you don't know at the time of purchase). Being married to a single dealer for the life of a machine would be a very bad thing.

They didn't specify a type, but they were such morons, it wouldn't matter to me. BTW - I was dealing with the owners! I can't imagine turning away service. It seems to me that you would make more money servicing a tractor for 20+ years, building a positive relationship, and possibly selling another tractor to a customer, rather than trying to gouge them on that one sale. On my b7800, this dealer was 1K higher than the dealer I purchased from & refused to budge a single dollar. I asked him to meet me half way because I wanted to buy locally, and told him so. He stood firm on his price, & told me that if I didn't buy it from him not to bother bringing it to him for service, that he wouldn't work on it. Arrogant! The funny/amazing thing is that everyone that I speak to in the area has the same impression of them. Nobody can understand how they stay in business!?

 

[Berniep]

The funny/amazing thing is that everyone that I speak to in the area has the same impression of them. Nobody can understand how they stay in business!?

Because I am sure it's just like around here, there are folks who will buy from a cetain dealer just because they always have bought from that dealer. Doesn't matter if they have to pay more, doesn't matter if they get bad service, they will still go back to that dealer. I don't understand it but that's the way they are.

 

[RayMunising]

Nobody can understand how they stay in business!?

So they don't try very hard to sell tractors and they only work on tractors they sell. That's some business plan.

Maybe they are so good they've developed an arrogant attitude! You had the opportunity to have these fine folks be your dealer? You obviously made a serious mistake twodogs.

 

[DiezNutz]

Because I am sure it's just like around here, there are folks who will buy from a cetain dealer just because they always have bought from that dealer. Doesn't matter if they have to pay more, doesn't matter if they get bad service, they will still go back to that dealer. I don't understand it but that's the way they are.

There are morons and sheep among every type of demographic you can think of, why should tractor dealers and tractor buyers have an exception to the rule. Those who manage to find each other will make a success of it.

 

[Scrounger]

I would think that a simple call to Kubota Customer Relations would solve this issue. A letter to the Better Business Bureau would also be a good measure also. Both Kubota and the dealer would be asked to respond by the BBB. Talking to the local paper's customer business advocate reporter might be useful too.

In a nut shell, a whack job dealer should not be let to push a valued customer around. I don think Kubota would want that either.

 

[Buster57]

The fact that you have a crappy dealer is unfortunate. The fact that Kubota Canada reacted that way is astonishing.


I don't think corporate Kubota is that sensitive? Not the USA office-that is for sure. Their Corporate guy was just a punching bag. I called up expressing my dissatisfaction about the BX1850, that I owned for 7 months, and dared Kubota to do something to me. I went completely apoplectic on the US corporate customer satisfaction manager-what ever his title is-I bet his butt is still hurting.


My dealer was really cool. I am now much happier with a B7800 and plan to buy another in a couple years (I will upgrade to the next Gen B3030). Fourth Kubota….

 

[canoetrpr]

Last week I faxed a long letter on this issue to Kubota Canada's customer complaints manager and district sales manager for Ontario. I have not heard a word back from them.

I am surprised I must say.

Just haven't had the energy to pick up the phone and make a deal out of this yet. Have another 10 things I have to get done and if I think about this it irritates me.

I imagine I may give them a call next week if I have not heard from them yet.