Beware Chinese bearings!

[mjncad]

Timken
the only ones to use...

I was told the car owner put Timken bearings in with clearly labeled "Made in USA" on the race and all is well.

 

[AlanB]

I guess just to put up a counterpoint,

If I had a picture of a trashed American Made Bearing, and posted it up here saying

Don't buy American made Junk Bearings

What would the arguments be?

I guess what I am saying, is I do not think I would condem all "chinese Bearings" because one failed in an aftermarket scenario.

To each his own I guess. I think you will be hard pressed to only by American made bearings though.

 

[mjncad]

My friend sent me more info concerning his friend's Nomad with the Chinese bearings as described in the following text.

"Thanks for posting. More folks need to know and understand the shortcomings of the inferior grade manufacturing we are seeing. This was just one example. There are many more. This is really happening and is no fluke. After seeing J.D.'s car in person and hearing the tales of stuff that didn't work or failed immediately, it's time to become concerned.

I read some of the other posts. Of course it's easy to be critical and say these were installed wrong, not greased properly, overtorqued etc. (otherwise explain it away). In fact that is what the suppliers of these kits will infer when you call to complain about this stuff.

The fact is that these bearings were supplied with the "kit" and the races were pre installed in the hubs. Who knows if they were matched with the bearings or just loose pieces that all showed up in the same box. Who knows if these were properly hardened? We do know that the bearings were properly greased and sealed, then torqued per specs provided by the kit provider and still they failed. Wheel bearings should run 100,000 miles.

After this incident J.D. replaced all bearings with new Timken bearings himself rather than take any more chances. He has not had a problem since! What does that say?

The fact is that those of us in this hobby look for the best stuff to put on our cars. This '56 Nomad was a six figure build. When you pay a premium for a kit and get junk, someone is making a good profit at our expense for sure!

Additionally, we have more expertise than most of the suppliers at installing and maintaining our equipment. J.D. 's 56 Nomad had been a 4 year project and was touched by several experts in the classic car arena. All of that expertise shows if you see this machine in person. His biggest mistake was to trust the components in a kit provided by a well advertised supplier instead of sourcing each item himself.

I find myself in the same boat. I have just installed a disc brake conversion "kit" as well. You saw what happened as a result of questionable engineering in that kit. There are no markings on my wheel bearings to identify their source, so I won't take a chance. I now will pull it all apart, redesign the brackets and replace all the bearings after I source stuff made here in the good old USA."

In the last paragraph my friend describes a disc brake conversion kit he is installing on his '57 Chevy. He sent me the pictures of a bolt head that gouged the crap out of the brake rotor. The manufacturer said, "No big deal, grind the head down a bit."

The next paragraph comes from an architect friend of mine 50-miles away who is remodeling his house.

"Earlier this week, I had to make a choice between installing Siemens GFCIs in the panel @ $40 ea., or putting the GFCIs in as devices (in the outlet box) at about $15 a pop. Each of 2 circuits serves 2 outlets, and 1 circuit serves a single outlet. My mind was made up when the outlet type GFCIs were "made in China". I avoid "rice", and in particular Chinese, and particular when it is a mission critical item."

The bottom line..."Whenever possible, just say NO to Chinese made junk!"

 

[Rara Avis]

Not to be Jingoistic...but if you want a real reason to avoid chinese junk...go over to the chinese tractor forum and look at what the posts are about...

They are not, in general, about customization, add-ons, et cetera...

They are primarily about repairs...

 

[Tig]

Inferior manufacturing was not a new phenomena. I've bought cheap junk on and off for 40 years. It usually fits my light duty requirment and budget. Some of that junk wasn't so cheap and wasn't made very far away. If it's defective I make the supplier come good for it since they are the people who took my money. In your friends case, it seems that he feels cheated because he paid top dollar and the supplier cheaped out on an important component. I would suggest sending the pictures and the description to the assembly manufacturer. If they are in the quality business they will want to make this right.
By the way, I'd love to see a pic of that Nomad. I always loved those cars.

 

[SLOBuds]

After WW3 the Japanese rebuilt themselves, reinvented themselves, and went about becoming a big producer-state powerhouse.

For reasons I don't know, their quality control was lacking and product from Japan got the rap of being poor 'made in Japan' quality. It was a derogatory evaluation of production quality back then - and guilt by association for all things which 'broke'. Even if those things were built in the good old US of A.

Guilt by association lasted a long time and my guess is that more than a few people harbor those feelings still. Us old geasers mostly!

Well, time passes. Things change. People move on. Everyone forgets who fought whom. On and on and on. One thing leads to another and come to find out that the Japanese learned how to engineer, and build, pretty da** good! (Guess they learned that from us ... but who's counting???)

Unfortunately it was a pretty expensive trip for them by coming out of the gate with poor product quality that left the world with a lasting impression of Japanese junk. It took many decades to ease that impression. It cost that country billions of dollars of trade revenue.

Well, for my ENTIRE lifetime the pundants have told us over and over again that China is the worlds next big thing. And when that hits, they tell us, we will be blown over. This is my entire lifetime I've heard that over and over again. All of the smart money was on China. The smart money didn't take into account revolutions and other cultural aspects of the Chinese.

Anyway. Fast forward to now, it looks to me like China is taking the same road that Japan did after WW2. They are (finally) starting to realize that production potential. And let's not generalize by saying that everything built in China is junk. Just seems that way!

Our appetite for cheap stuff is insatiable. Just can't get enough of cheap stuff from Wallyworld. Or maybe we know in my heart that all that cheap stuff isn't really that important. Can't help ourselves though.

Lead in kids toys and melamine spiked in food is probably a sad dose of reality for us. We look at that and know a line is drawn. We know that China crossed the line and we are also partly culpable because of our appetite. In either case it has to be fixed, or they need to be fired.

These mistakes from China will cost them dearly. Over a long long time just like Japan. AND it will probably be good for those of us who want product to be sourced in the United States! Most of us think it's better to pay more for something that doesn't have led or melamine. And, why not try to go the distance and buy everything sourced here???

Taint possible is why. But at least we can try.

I'm not sure that lead and melamine will get rid of rusted bearings. Or Harbor Freight tools. Bearings and tools probably aren't over the line. So China will kept being fed from America, and eventually they will catch on and enforce some kind of compulsory engineering and quality standards. Learn the Japanese lessons.

Then we'll need to find some other country to complain about!

Have a nice weekend all. I'm sure glad that my children are so much smarter than I am - they will have this fixed in no time whatsoever.

 

[mjncad]

Not to be Jingoistic...but if you want a real reason to avoid chinese junk...go over to the chinese tractor forum and look at what the posts are about...

They are not, in general, about customization, add-ons, et cetera...

They are primarily about repairs...

And I suspect difficulty in obtaining repair parts too.

 

[mjncad]

Inferior manufacturing was not a new phenomena. I've bought cheap junk on and off for 40 years. It usually fits my light duty requirment and budget. Some of that junk wasn't so cheap and wasn't made very far away. If it's defective I make the supplier come good for it since they are the people who took my money. In your friends case, it seems that he feels cheated because he paid top dollar and the supplier cheaped out on an important component. I would suggest sending the pictures and the description to the assembly manufacturer. If they are in the quality business they will want to make this right.
By the way, I'd love to see a pic of that Nomad. I always loved those cars.

The Nomad is white and yellow, and here is a link to the Nomad and its owners. Heartbeat Classic Chevy Club - Members

I've suggested to my friend that he tell his Nomad buddy to contact not just the manufacturer of the junk components; but the Consumer Product Safety Commission and the media. Right now the media gives the impression to the people that it's just kids' toys and pet food that is screwed by shoddy and dishonest manufacturing policies in China.

 

[Tig]

Very very nice mj. I can imagine how many hours went into that project.

 

[mjncad]

Yep Tig, the Nomad's owner has done a heck of a nice job. If I could afford it, I'd be proud to call it my own; but that is a pipe dream.

 

[Richard]

I sure don't know how to paraphrase his comment but a friend of mine once said something similar to this:

The difference with the Chinese is, with OTHER places of manufacture and engineering, they try to approach it from the perspective of building it right but building it to a price point or perhaps OVER engineering it (German?)

The Chinese however, seem to take pride in engineering it to make it as cheap as possible to produce. The "prize of pride" goes to the guy who can find some way to make it less expensive rather than "better".

The entire drive of the Chinese manufacturing machine is to lower cost at the expense of all else where as, there might be some other places of manufacture where the drive of manufacturing is to make a certain quality level as inexpensively as possible (while maintaining that level of quality)

Dunno if he is/was right but the way he worded it sure seemed to make sense. (and he dealt with the Chinese for making some parts he uses)

 

[SnowRidge]

China makes good stuff, and she makes junk. The problem is in determining which is which.

It isn't hard when you look at halogen work lights at Home Depot, for example. Everyone I have seen there was junk, but how do you know if something like a bearing is quality or crap?

The problem isn't so much with the Chinese, but the American marketeers, who don't seem to care as much about quality as they do about price. The buyers bear some responsibility, too, but you can't blame them for all of it. Often, we are not even offered a quality choice anymore. Again, look at the halogen work lamps in Home Depot. They are all made in China, and the last time I looked, they were all junk. You can't walk into a store and expect to find quality anymore.

 

[Soundguy]

Beware Chinese bearings!....and pet food, clothing with lead, toys with lead, Chinese-supplied wheat and rice gluten that had been adulterated with melamine, Baby cribs that collapse, tooth paste, and on and on.

Ya forgot cough syrup didn'cha

Soundguy

 

[gbick]

When I needed wheel bearings I went to NAPA. After the counter boy got them, I axamined them before paying. Sure enough, MADE IN CHINA. "No", I said. "I don't want chinese bearings!" He says, "No problem, we have SKF's but they cost more and most people want the cheaper ones."
As long as short sighted people demand low price over quality, we will continue to lose our options and low quality will be the standard.

 

[orezok]

I too have bought items made in China that were of poor quality and a poor value, but somehow I don't think that some Chinese businesman designed a bearing, purchased the "right" steel, manufactured it and then took the boat to America to find buyer for his product.

I can just about guarantee you that some AMERICAN company designed it, sent the specs to a Chinese broker who sub'ed it to his uncle who sub'ed it to a friend of his neighbor who couldn't read plans, but made something that looked like the plan. Did the American company visit the manufacturing plant to see how the work was progressing. Doubt it. Did they do a full quality control on the final product. Doubt it. But when it failed, they blamed the Chinese for their shortcomings. It's convenient for American businesses to take the profit, but blame the Chinese for THEIR OWN bad business plan.

Put the blame where it belongs!

 

[xlr82v2]

When I changed the wheel bearings on my 96 Ford Ranger pickup last year, I specifically ordered Timken bearings... the shop had them in stock. Great! Got them home, opened them up... MADE IN CHINA!

Even the once Mighty Timken has gone down the same path... Timken brand is no longer a guarantee of a USA made bearing.

Corporate greed is going to be the downfall of this country.

 

[bluechip]

Looks like an installation error, perhaps not packed properly and perhaps the preload was not set correctly. Can you even get USA made bearings anymore?

 

[Reg]

I guess just to put up a counterpoint,

If I had a picture of a trashed American Made Bearing, and posted it up here saying

Don't buy American made Junk Bearings

What would the arguments be?

I guess what I am saying, is I do not think I would condem all "chinese Bearings" because one failed in an aftermarket scenario.

To each his own I guess. I think you will be hard pressed to only by American made bearings though.

I think the reaction would largely be;
a) You must have installed them dry
b) You might have pre-loaded them too much
c) Ahh, "Made in America" probably only means they were ASSEMBLED in America - from parts made in CH*N*

Well, you get the picture (-:

 

[IslandTractor]

I too have bought items made in China that were of poor quality and a poor value, but somehow I don't think that some Chinese businesman designed a bearing, purchased the "right" steel, manufactured it and then took the boat to America to find buyer for his product.

I can just about guarantee you that some AMERICAN company designed it, sent the specs to a Chinese broker who sub'ed it to his uncle who sub'ed it to a friend of his neighbor who couldn't read plans, but made something that looked like the plan. Did the American company visit the manufacturing plant to see how the work was progressing. Doubt it. Did they do a full quality control on the final product. Doubt it. But when it failed, they blamed the Chinese for their shortcomings. It's convenient for American businesses to take the profit, but blame the Chinese for THEIR OWN bad business plan.

Put the blame where it belongs!

Exactly! I agree that a huge part of the quality problem is on this side of the Pacific. This China bashing is rich considering our own history of automobile manufacturering in the 1970-2000 era. Talk about lousy quality.

Some fine Sony DVD players are made in China. So are Radio Shack and numerous other unreliable players carrying name plates sold in the US market familiar to anyone shopping at Walmart, Best Buy, Circuit City etc etc. They are often built in the same factories as the quality merchandise. It all boils down to what the customer (marketer) specifies and accepts from the factory. You want cheap stuff to sell to your fellow Americans, they'll happily build you cheap stuff to your specifications. It's not just the Chinese selling us junk.

 

[RonMar]

Not to be Jingoistic...but if you want a real reason to avoid chinese junk...go over to the chinese tractor forum and look at what the posts are about...

They are not, in general, about customization, add-ons, et cetera...

They are primarily about repairs...

Well considering that a good number of the chinese machines were assembled by the people who bought them, or are in areas with no dealer support, I would expect to see more discussion about repairs on the chinese forum. They are also simple enough that most troubles can be diagnosed and repairs sugested thru a few forum exchanges. Will my chinese tractor break more frequently than a green or orange one? Perhaps, but It also costs far less to repair it when it does.

When I do need parts, and I will eventually(as will everyone who uses any tractor), I can quickly point and click my way to half a dozzen suppliers, and with a phone, can fairly easilly reach a half dozzen more dealers that stock parts in my home state.

Would I rather have a green or orange tractor? Perhaps, but I just don't make enough money to justify the expense. For a comparable sized CUT, a green or orange tractor wouldn't push, pull or drag any better. Is mine junk? well it has proven so far to be a simple durable tool. Is there junk out there? You bet, but it was most likley specified and designed by someone who holds the purse strings, who decided that it's standards would be "good enough" to make a profit.

US manufacturing going overseas? This has always been, and will always be about economics. Worker lifestyle demands and the same demand for low consumer prices will always be in direct conflict. China is already running into this same issue so they won't be a cheap labor force for very long(no one ever is). Unfortunatly by that time, we, the US will have lost the base for that type production and with startup costs what they are, it will be very costly to reclaim it.

My .02