Best way to fix this???

[matthoffman33]

Hi all, I own a Taskmaster 432e - had it for about 2 years now and have had no problems. Recently I noticed my PTO is grinding when I engage the lever. Upon closer inspection I noticed that the plastic shim came completely out of the clutch pedal. Any suggestions on the easiest way to get the back where it is supposed to be? I tried tapping it in to no avail. I'm guessing this will make the difference for fully disengaging the clutch? Thanks for the help, I also attached a picture to make it easier to understand!!

 

[JB4310]

Only suggestion might be to disconnect any linkage and spring tension from the pedal so it can be moved around freely. Wiggle it around the center of the opening and try to slip that shim back in.

If the shim is to big, maybe squeeze it with a hose clamp close to the end that has to slide in, like a ring compressor.

JB.

 

[tmajor]

When did they start putting plastic in "Tractors"?

I was at the local TSC store, yesterday. The Toy tractors and implements, like I used to get as a kid, are now plastic, rather than metal. What is the world coming to?

 

[greg_g]

Yeah, spring tension is causing metal on metal to the point where it won't permit you to slide the nylon bushing back in place.

But that's likely a negligible part of your grinding problem. Block the wheels and remove the inspection plate from the side of your bell housing. Put the tranny in neutral and have someone turn the crank pulley. Watch as the clutch release fingers rotate around, and note how far away they come from the face of the throwout bearing. The prescribed gap is 2.5mm (~1/8"). If the gap is too wide, you're not going to get full pedal travel, which won't fully release the PTO clutch. The adjustment at the yoke on the external clutch pull rod. In some cases it may also be necessary to screw the stop bolt in a little to finish the job.

//greg//

 

[matthoffman33]

Thanks for the info guys - I'll take another look at it my next set of days off.

 

[matthoffman33]

Morning,
So, I haven't touched my tractor in the last little while as we've had no snow here and I haven't started it in the past few months!! We finally got some snow the other day and when I went to engage the PTO for the snowblower I could not engage it as it would just grind when I tried!! Shifting gears is no problem - no grinding or other noises, jus the PTO. Sorry Greg - I took the cover off yesterday and tried to see exactly what you're talking about but wasn't 100% sure. I'll take some pics and post them if you wouldn't mind walking me through it!! Is fixing this problem going to involve splitting the tractor? The clutch pedal has already been adjusted to the max by the previous owner so there is no more room left for adjustment externally!!

 

[greg_g]

The clutch pedal has already been adjusted to the max by the previous owner so there is no more room left for adjustment externally!!

That's almost certainly the root of the problem, if not the whole problem. Short of simple incompetence, there's no reason whatsoever to arbitrarily adjust a clutch pull rod to that extreme without additional troubleshooting (to find out why it was necessary). I was going to suggest that you could fix this with a simple external adjustment, no splitting required. But once I read that last part, all bets are off. Hard tellin' what you're dealing with inside now.

Anyway, a few photos can't hurt. Maybe something less complicated will jump out at us.

//greg//

 

[jacques54]

Hi all,

I'm a newbe registered member but i was looking at the forum for some time.

As for the PTO clutch, could it be just the clutch disk that ctick to the pressure plate or the flywheel. As the tractor sit for some month this could happen on the traction too, deja vu. To fix that you could not fill the bell housing with WD40. The disk clutch will be saturated of that stuf. Check first if all the fingers clutch (3+3) are moving and with their proper gap. Then i'll try hitting the pressure plate with the clutch pedal fully depress, and keeping my fingers cross.

Bye Jacques

 

[SPIKER]

first turn off the engine and engage the PTO then start the engine after warm. run normally for a while might start hard initially with the extra PTO load on there. make sure everything is safe in there prior to starting it though. also dont beat on clutch probably wont help but yes could be rusted up. otherwise additionally sli[ping main clutch slightly to warm it up could also break the PTO loose...

additionally you can try turning off the engine pull the trans into neutral and try turning the PTO manually having the PTO IN will transfer the PTO rotating into the engine. you HAVE to make sure the KILL lever is {PULLED} so the engine cant start up. using a PTO shaft that is square on there means you can put a big wrench on it and work it back and forth against the engine compression to help break stuff free.

dont spray anything on there other than maybe some brake cleaner as oil will ruin your clutch toot quick.


BTW the MAIN clutch is first dis-engaged and as it pulls away from the flywheel it pushes into the PTO clutch and then pulls that loose. SO if the MAIN is adjusted poorly it will affect the PTO clutch as well. Johns Tractor site (Not sure if it is still up) has a very good written explanation on how the two clutches interact. ya all my pics & a few of my tech info help there. sorry I dont have a copy of it any longer and there are other very good info there. here is a lot of good info not sure if John is still around but his compiled info is there
http://johnstractor.homestead.com/JinmaInfo4.html


mark

 

[greg_g]

As for the PTO clutch, could it be just the clutch disk that ctick to the pressure plate or the flywheel.

Nope. Not if stuck to the flywheel anyway. And I've experienced a PTO disc sticking to the flywheel myself. and nothing's impossible, but I've never heard of one sticking to the opposite pressure plate. So even if it was stuck to the flywheel, fully depressing the clutch pedal is still supposed to relieve tension from both Belleville springs. Then with no pressure pushing against the PTO friction disc - stuck or not - there should be no grinding when trying to engage the PTO lever. There's actually a way to test that, but I'm not sure what it would prove at this point.

Unless there's something else wrong, which is what I suspect. A stuck PTO disc wouldn't explain the described gross maladjustment of the external linkage either.

Oh - and I'm actually not positive about this - but I'd be surprised if the TM432e has a 6 fingered clutchpack. Odds favor the 3 finger type. That will become important if/when it comes to the point where some internal adjustments may be possible.

//greg//

 

[greg_g]

BTW the MAIN clutch is first dis-engaged and as it pulls away from the flywheel

No, the PTO friction disc is between the clutchpack and the flywheel Mark. Go back to that link you posted, look up the clutch, find item #2. Note that it's identified as the "PTO clutch disc..."

//greg//

 

[SPIKER]

No, the PTO friction disc is between the clutchpack and the flywheel Mark. Go back to that link you posted, look up the clutch, find item #2. Note that it's identified as the "PTO clutch disc..."

//greg//

Greg:

the photos and wright up was done by me, so yes as I stated the main clutch first pull off then bottoms out on the clutch tabs and continues to pull the PTO off until it is disengaged on my 02 jinma. that is how the 2 state clutch works and how you can first depress the clutch halfway bring the tractor to a stop but leave the PTO running as it is still spinning clamped to the flywheel.

mark

 

[greg_g]

...the main clutch first pull off then bottoms out on the clutch tabs and continues to pull the PTO off until it is disengaged on my 02 jinma. that is how the 2 state clutch works and how you can first depress the clutch halfway bring the tractor to a stop but leave the PTO running as it is still spinning clamped to the flywheel.

That's marginally better. My problem is with your original wording. You said "the MAIN clutch is first dis-engaged and as it pulls away from the flywheel it pushes into the PTO clutch and then pulls that loose...". That gives a false impression that the main drive friction disc is next to the flywheel.

For the benefit of the OP: your TM432e clutch may differ slightly Mark's Jinma 200 series example, so here's a generic description of a 3 fingered Chinese tractor clutch train. From front to rear the sequence is
1. flywheel (which acts as one PTO pressure plate)
2. PTO friction disc
3. clutchpack (consisting of)
-PTO pressure plate
-PTO Belleville spring
-main drive pressure plate
-main drive friction disc
-main drive pressure plate 2
-main drive Belleville spring
-housing
-release fingers and associated hardware
4. throwout bearing and bearing carrier
5. release fork

That's the end of the basic internals. Outside then is the
a. clutch release lever (connected to #5 above)
b. adjustable pull rod
c. clutch pedal

On the off chance you have a 6 finger clutch, let us know immediately - and I'll have to shift gears. They're laid out similarly, but have an entirely different adjustment technique.

//greg//

 

[matthoffman33]

Hi, I attached a couple pics showing what I can see through the side of the bell housing. I'm not sure what it's supposed to look like, but there's not a whole lot of room to see anything. I checked the manual but all it says for the clutch is "2-late, dry type, constand meshing, operating independently double-acting clutch". The last pic I attached just shows the clutch where it goes back to the left side of the seat. Previous owner mentioned a little clutch trouble but said a friend of his fixed it up. That was 2 years ago and I haven't had any problems 'till now.

 

[greg_g]

Seems in the first photo that there's far far too much gap between the visible clutch release finger and the throwout bearing (not visible). That gap is typically no more than 2.5mm (+/- 0.5mm). That applies to all 3 fingers, so you have to rotate the clutchpack and inspect all 3 gaps. Again, not sure about the TM432e, but that gap is typically achieved by adjusting the external pull rod. When there's too much gap, you don't have enough pedal. Not enough pedal will make the PTO grind. But if all 3 gaps are different, that involves an internal adjustment as well.

Can't see anything of use in the 2nd photo. In it, the throwout bearing is visible - but the finger is not. And I'm not at all sure of what I'm lookin' at in the 3rd one.

//greg//

 

[Affordable]

Are you talking about the adjustment on the 3 rd pic ? That pic is of the left brake housing and brake adjustment ? On your clutch you need to take a better pic that includes the clutch finger and clutch release bearing in the same photo in order to see whats going on, it does look like the gap is big from the current pic.



Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
"Your Jinma Parts Superstore"
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

 

[matthoffman33]

OK, I think I got a good picture here that shows the gap. FYI, it would appear there are 3 fingers, in my manual they are called Release Levers and it does show 3 of them. Secondly, I was wrong before when I said there was no room left for external adjustment. There is actually quite a bit as you can see in the second pic. What would you guys recommend for adjustment? Would doing it externally be enough or does that gap look to large and need to be adjusted as well?

 

[Rich Waugh]

The starting point is to get a set of feeler gauges and check all three finger-to-release bearing face gaps. Make sure they're all within 0.2mm of each other. The closer they are to absolutely equal, the better. Any that are out need to brought into spec or you'll just thrash the fingers in the long (or short) run. You'll need to lock the compression release open, pull the kill cable and lock it out, and turn the engine over with a wrench on the front pulley nut to check each finger gap. It takes some fiddling to get them all the same, back and forth until they're right, but it is necessary for proper clutch life.

Once the fingers are adjusted to the proper gap, then you can adjust the external pull rod to set the 2.5mm finger-to-bearing face gap and you should be in business.

 

[greg_g]

Three things;
1. it's clear that the two visible fingers are out of adjustment. All three should meet the 2.5mm spec (9+/-0.5mm) AND be within 0.1mm of each other.
2. finger wear. New fingers have ball tips, yours are flat. And not much of them left at that. Flat fingers are typically caused by (a) riding the clutch, and/or (b) incorrectly adjusted pull rod.
3. bearing wear. Excessive contact by the fingers prematurely ages the throwout bearing. Can't tell by the photo, but a telltale sign is blue discoloration.

Unless there's something wrong with the 3rd finger - and/or unless the TOB is blue - it may not be absolutely necessary to split the tractor at this particular time. But understand that they're not in good shape. Problem will be - without the proper ball end - you're gonna have trouble accurately adjusting the individual gaps to spec.

//greg//

 

[Diamondpilot]

I agree, get the fingers adjusted then go to the pedal free play.

I did mine with a drill bit as a feeler gauge. Just found one that was 2.5mm and used it to be my feeler gauge. Its tough to get wrenches in there but its doable.

Chris