Grapple Best "rock" grapple for CUT?

[HillCountry]

Ha! Man, that robo rock picker looks awesome. So does the kwickpik. I really want to stay with a single machine though, and a tractor is just so versatile for the various other tasks. That dc6 just looks like a monster.

Here's a pic showing the type and quantity of rocks I'm looking to rearrange. It also gives a good representation of the trees in proximity. The meadow can be seen in the background. I have 4 areas with rocks like this that I want to clean up in the relatively near term, roughly 1/4 acre each.


The type of grapple I "think" will work best is one similar to Anbo's GR-M. It has a rake style bottom with 6" spread on the tines with a matching top. The reason I'm thinking this would be preferable to the L shaped bottom is that I can more effectively use 4 types of actions:
1. Push rake with the bottom while moving forward. I think I can also use this to position up to medium sized rocks in ground, then tilt the bucket back to help break them loose. (Won't work on large rocks I know.)
2. Pull rake with bucked dumped all the way and the top tines dragging the ground while moving backward to gather loose surface rocks into a pile.
3. Scoop/grab piles of small to medium rocks to transport.
4. Top down grap and lift larger rocks.

I need to stay pretty shallow on any rock raking I do so as not to damage too many roots, and I'll have to go back with topsoil to replace the volume of rocks I'm moving.

I have very small ambitions for the rock walls. In fact, I think of them more along the lines of "linear piles". If I get real ambitious I might go back to the linear piles and try to dry stack them into a more orderly appearance. What I'm looking to accomplish with the rock walls is essentially a mini-terrace type of thing. Taking the above pic as an example, I want to move most of those rocks into a very small wall, maybe a 1 or 2 high, to the right side of that pic, re-fill that center area with topsoil, and then the little wall serves as a way to help keep the topsoil from running down the hill to the meadow at the next rain.

 

[CurlyDave]

After seeing the rocks, I am more convinced than ever that the right piece of equipment is a backhoe with thumb or an exactor with thumb. It would be very difficult for my grapple to pick up more than a few of those rocks at one time, but if I put them in a pile with the backhoe, I might be able to get several into the grapple at once. I would stack into a long pile, almost like a windrow.

I know you want a grapple, but it is only going to pick up one rock at a time, and you are going to be driving all over to get the rock in the grapple. Backhoe with thumb will only get one at a time also, but once you learn how to set it up, you can pick them up individually and stack in a pile, with no driving around between rocks. Much faster.

I would start by backing up to the start of the area to be cleared. Pick up all the rocks I can reach with the hoe and thumb, stack them on the right. Back up a couple feet and repeat. Keep backing up a few feet at a time to reposition the hoe and you will end up with a pile of rocks on the right side of the swath you just cleared. Now go over to the start, but with the long, skinny pile on the left about the length of your hoe away. Back up again and pile the rocks on the left, in the same long skinny pile. When you reach the end, come around and go lengthwise down the pile, scooping rocks into your grapple. I would not expect to get it more than 1/2 full at a time. This might be very hard on the grapple.

The things I have found a grapple to be good at picking up are:
brush piles
logs, one big one or a few small ones.
large individual rocks
A pile of rocks is way down at the bottom of the "easy" list.

I have seen pictures of large piles of rocks, about the size of your rocks, in a grapple, completely filling it. But, in every instance, the grapple was loaded by hand and then the rocks picked up from that position and the picture taken.

 

[HillCountry]

CurlyDave - I must have thought and rethought a backhoe dozens of times now. I really wanted to avoid the additional expense if I could, but a backhoe might be the best long term answer. On the flip side... Woohoo, more toys!

 

[sdef]

CurlyDave - I must have thought and rethought a backhoe dozens of times now. I really wanted to avoid the additional expense if I could, but a backhoe might be the best long term answer. On the flip side... Woohoo, more toys!

My property is very similar to your picture, except I have ~ 25% more rocks of similar size and a few 800 pounders, along with more trees. And yes in a large area, you walk mainly on rocks and not the ground. It is obviously a glacial dumping ground.

I have never considered a hoe for this type of work as I feel the rock bucket will be much faster just by using it as a bucket, running it along the ground and just having them roll/slide into the bucket.

I will be starting my project in January and will try and remember to update this thread with my results.

 

[CurlyDave]

...I have never considered a hoe for this type of work as I feel the rock bucket will be much faster just by using it as a bucket, running it along the ground and just having them roll/slide into the bucket.

I will be starting my project in January and will try and remember to update this thread with my results.

Out in my area those rocks in the picture would not be just sitting on top of the ground. They are sort of like icebergs with most of the rock below grade. Despite being very heavy duty, my grapple is not a ground-engaging implement if the ground has not first been loosened up in some manner.

I doubt I could maintain any forward momentum trying to scoop rocks up that were distributed like those in the picture with my grapple, and I know I could not drive forward with the front edge of the grapple set a few inches below ground to get the rocks up. I would run out of either horsepower or traction.

A bulldozer with a grizzly would make short work of rocks like that, but that is in a whole different cost league than a tractor...

Go out in your rock field with a pick and a shovel, or even just a set of heavy gloves. If the rocks are loose and sitting on top of the earth, your plan is going to work. If they are 1/2 buried the grapple will take a long time.

 

[sdef]

Out in my area those rocks in the picture would not be just sitting on top of the ground. They are sort of like icebergs with most of the rock below grade. Despite being very heavy duty, my grapple is not a ground-engaging implement if the ground has not first been loosened up in some manner.

I doubt I could maintain any forward momentum trying to scoop rocks up that were distributed like those in the picture with my grapple, and I know I could not drive forward with the front edge of the grapple set a few inches below ground to get the rocks up. I would run out of either horsepower or traction.

A bulldozer with a grizzly would make short work of rocks like that, but that is in a whole different cost league than a tractor...

Go out in your rock field with a pick and a shovel, or even just a set of heavy gloves. If the rocks are loose and sitting on top of the earth, your plan is going to work. If they are 1/2 buried the grapple will take a long time.

We have picked up quite a few of the rocks and brought them to our current homes for landscaping. For the most part they are sitting on the surface- meaning we need to use a shovel to get under an edge or to dig a couple of inches underground to flip them up where they can be picked up. For the most part, ours are not like icebergs. For the more difficult ones I plan on using the ROBB with the shanks sunk maybe 6" into the earth and have them turn over the more stubborn ones.

But I will let you guys know how I finally have to work it out. And investing in a hoe is not in my budget.

 

[IslandTractor]

Hey folks,

Wife and I are building a house on 12 acres in the Texas Hill Country north of San Antonio. Looking for a sanity check on tractor size and a bit of help with a grapple selection. I plan on keeping this house until they carry me out. The tractor stays until the estate sale.

After hours of reading, a bit of test driving, and discussions with my Dad who's got a 27HP New Holland and a 75HP John Deere, I'm landing on a 40ish HP Kubota (L3940 or similar+) or Kioti (DK40SE HST or similar+). I haven't made it to the various dealers yet, but they are all similar distances from me, none real close but all within about 30 miles in various directions. Phone calls to dealers have given me rough ideas on pricing. No suprises in that Kioti prices best with most features for the buck, Kubota is next, John Deere is premium priced. I'll buy the tractor that seems like the best deal, with the features and fit that appeal to me most, from the dealer that seems like he'll be able to help me take care of any issues that crop up. Any suggestions for a dealer to definitely talk to, or not talk to, in the area between San Antonio and Austin?

The 12 acres is roughly composed of:

[*]4 acres, underbrush cleared with clustered and scattered oaks, average 10% slope, some more some less
[*]5 acres, more densely wooded but still fairly easy to walk through in "most" areas, same 10% average slope, with underbrush and cedars that I want to clear
[*]3 acres, level grassy meadow with a seasonal creek at the back border, trees along the creek
[*]all except the meadow is rocky soil or rock, even the "good" soil where leaves/acorns/limbs have dropped and decomposed for a hundred years has a lot of large rocks mixed in. The meadow has all the soil that washed down from the wooded acres above, so not many visible rocks.


Top tractor tasks, roughly but not exactly in priority order:

[*]Dig/pick up and move rocks, lots and lots of rocks at surface level from 25 lbs to 1500lbs (the ones over 1500 lbs may just have to remain a "feature" of our landscaping)
[*]Make rocks into little rock walls through and around trees; some of the little rock walls will be a little more substantial to help guide rainwater during heaving rains and limit erosion
[*]Move cedars I push over or cut with chainsaw
[*]Mulch said cedars, we often have burn bans in this part of Texas and I want the mulch anyway to put around the oak trees
[*]Spread and level topsoil that I have delivered to selected landscape areas
[*]Brush hog the 3 acres of meadow a few times a year


The biggest implement question I have is what type of grapple to get. While there are a lot of threads on grapples, most that I found focus more on logs, roots, and underbrush than rocks. While I will certainly want the grapple to do that type of work, I also want it to be easy to use and efficient in picking up and moving surface rocks. There are lots of visible rocks I want to move between 500 and 1500 lbs, then literally thousands that are 3" to 24" scattered around. I want to be able to pick up and precisely place the larger rocks. I want to be able to rake then gather up the smaller rocks. As far as sizing the grapple, a 1500 lb rock might have dimensions something like 5' x 2' x 1', so a 48" grapple is plenty wide as long as it is strong enough and can open up enough. Any guidance from someone who has done this type of work with a CUT and grapple would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
HillCountry

I haven't read this whole thread so this might be a duplicate of other advice.

I use a DK40 with 48" grapple and have collected and moved rocks up to about 2000lbs. The big rocks are not the problem. Smaller rocks, especially those with any dimension less than 9" or so are not the easiest objects for grapples as they can fall through the tines. Intermediate tines can be ordered from some of the semi custom grapple makers such as Everything Attachments.

Small rocks can be collected with a landscape rake but then you need to collect and move them. Other than a specific rock bucket which is useful only for that purpose I don't know of a really efficient way to deal with lots of small surface rocks. Standard bucket is probably second best.

 

[sdef]

I haven't read this whole thread so this might be a duplicate of other advice.

I use a DK40 with 48" grapple and have collected and moved rocks up to about 2000lbs. The big rocks are not the problem. Smaller rocks, especially those with any dimension less than 9" or so are not the easiest objects for grapples as they can fall through the tines. Intermediate tines can be ordered from some of the semi custom grapple makers such as Everything Attachments.

Small rocks can be collected with a landscape rake but then you need to collect and move them. Other than a specific rock bucket which is useful only for that purpose I don't know of a really efficient way to deal with lots of small surface rocks. Standard bucket is probably second best.

CurlyDave- I certainly hope I do not run into a significant amount of iceberg rocks as they will ruin a lot of plans and money already spent. If I run into an unexpected boulder(s) that I can't go around for the driveway, I am planning on having a mini-x come out and do the heavy work once I have completed everything else.

IslandTractor- Your first picture is of a rock that is ~ 25% larger than any of my surface rocks. And viewing the rest of the established "neighborhood", no one else have any this size or larger in their "landscaping". So my 48" rock grapple should do the job. But I also have a CID stump bucket in case I have to do any deeper digging.

HillCountry- Over the summer I had a mini-x on the property digging a lot of pits further back from the rock garden in the front half of the property, looking for a septic tank drain field. Long story that lasted for a year- county denied my septic application twice as they could not find an area that would perc. So I hired a soils engineer and the mini-x. After 4 hours of looking and digging many pits, we hit the mother load of soil that would support my septic needs, ~ 175' further back from where I wanted to place the house in the middle of the property. I also had the mini-x dig a pit in the middle of the area where I wanted the home's foundation to be and came to the conclusion I will be able to have a basement foundation instead of a crawl space, as the subsurface was not nearly as rocky as the surface just a little bit farther away. Out of all of the digging, we did not come cross any rocks that were larger than the general surface rocks your pic shows. And certainly nothing approaching the size of the few, small surface boulders I have in the front half of the property, like IslandTractor's pics.

In my area of the country, it is very unusual to have the type of rocks on my property. And the soils engineer had never seen anything like it before and was very dubious about us finding a site for a septic system. Where the property is heavily laden with rocks, it will not perc for a septic permit and requires an engineered system of ~ $20,000 and then all of the maintenance and use restrictions that goes with it. Further back on the property where it is not nearly as rocky, the mini-x was able to find enough drainage area to support a 4 bedroom home. I do not know what your home site plans are, but your first step for home site planning may want to start with the septic permit, as everything else will revolve around that approval.

 

[HillCountry]

We already have our septic permit. In our area the soil and rocks are such that most folks have aerobic. I have some soil down in the meadow that would probably be fine, but that is also a drainage area so I am precluded from putting a septic tank down there.

Our rocks are a mix of surface rocks and hidden boulders. I am not going to try moving the boulders, but I am thinking I can rake the surface rocks where they are relatively loose, then gather than up with a rake style grapple with tines about 6" apart.

Sdef, have you had a chance to put the plan to the test yet?

CurlyDave, I priced backhoes. Still an option, but I am going to try to avoid that route if I can. For the 6 or 7 grand+ it would cost for the backhoe, and my limited tasks that would require it, I am probably better off spending about half that amount and hiring someone to held me, or a third if i rent for a few weeks and do it myself. Not as much fun as buying a new backhoe, but my sense of financial responsibility is kicking in and I am having a hard time justifying the cost to myself.

 

[sdef]

We already have our septic permit.

Sdef, have you had a chance to put the plan to the test yet?

No I have not. Having a firm move the tractor this Saturday and should have all implements out to the new property by the end of the weekend. Planning to begin "renovating" the following weekend. I also am not going to move any large, buried boulders I may happen to come across. I do see a spot that is probably a buried boulder storage area and I am winding the driveway around it. Which works out fine, as I do not want a straight shot from the road to the house and shop.

I think I am fortunate that the front half of the property is the rocky part- similar to your photo and I am placing the home site in the middle, past the extremely rocky part. I spent some hours out there New Years day blowing out a path of the fallen leaves for the driveway so I could see exactly what I will be doing next weekend and will modify my original plan just a bit now I have the exact path mapped out:

1- As previously, cut trees in the driveway path and remove the stumps. Stump removal is with a Brush Grubber BG-11 and CID stump bucket. Most are 6" in diameter or less (am directing the driveway around the large trees) and I have an auto wheel to run the chain over to provide a more vertical lift. Tested at my current home- works great and better than chain
2- Pull the ROBB with the tines only, just a few inches below the surface, to kick up the surface rocks.
3- Go back over with the rock grapple fairly level with the surface and with the teeth angled down a few degrees to channel the rocks flipped up by the ROBB, into the bucket. All I need to get is a fairly flat surface in this rocky area that will provide a good base for the gravel.
4- Do steps 2 and 3 twice or possibly 3 times and I should be good.

I will let you guys know how it progresses. I would be more concerned if the home site/shop area was rocky like the front half of the property. But thankfully, it is not. I will clear the trees from the home site area and let the building contractor and his heavy equipment deal with any potential large boulders in that area. As much as I would like to also have a back hoe, I just can't justify it for this one time use and will let the contractor deal with anything I can't. I work 52 - 56 hours per week on average and just do not have the time others may have and my time at the property will be limited to 1 day per week plus vacation time, holidays, etc.

I would also have had to use an aerobic septic system in most areas of my property and was fortunate to have found an area behind the house and past the large garden area, on a downhill slope I would not be using anyway.