Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

[Fuddyduddy1952]

UAW’s pension was illegally funded by Mr. O. over and above the legal bond holders. Plus other billions off direct payments to GM and Chrysler.

If you don’t like State Capitalism, stop voting for Communists.

After all we keep hearing,”China is doing sooo much better than the USA!”

No offense grumpy, and others have pointed this out to you, is you diverge from a factual comment off onto another topic!
Try to connect the dots and stay on topic, except I don't believe you can do that.
Starting with the purpose, the mandate, eliminating ICE, Federal and state tax (credit/rebate/refund/deduction) the reasoning behind EVs is to reduce pollution.
That's a fact.
Then someone mentions speed, FSD, fantastic stereo system, etc. What the blue blazes does that have to do with reducing pollutants and moving away from petroleum?
Someone loves the fantastic acceleration, great sound system & technology and I and all taxpayers (90% take advantage of it) are paying for that!???!
Of course you'll quote this in your usual off-topic way! Go ahead...

 

[txdon]

"Travis County officials are also keeping a close watch. The multi-million dollar incentive package that brought Tesla to Austin does not require a job cut notification. But to qualify for tax rebates, Tesla does have to create a set number of permanent jobs. A little more than 2,000 in the second year of operation and 5,000 by the fifth year."

https://www.fox7austin.com/news/possible-job-cuts-by-tesla-could-cut-into-deal-with-travis-county

 

[wawajake]

Well Grumpy Give it a rest with your holier than thou attitude. Quite frankly I suspect I was doing a solar system many years before you. In the 1990s we had a off grid cottage east of the small town of Wawa in Northern Ontario. I installed two 15 watt solar panels on a TV antenna tower I had. Then used a couple of decent RV batteries I bought.....Then I modified a inverter from a old camper and wired it all into a 100 amp panel for the cottage ( that we had wired in case electrical service ever was sent across the lake to us decades later.) We managed in winter evenings to enjoy power for 3 hours and even watched Brett Hall score the Stanley Cup overtime win against Buffalo on a 6 inch black and white grainy picture TV in June 1999. The huge difference from my tiny cheap setup...... is the middle class you so conveniently ignore ain't going to be doing $15,000 solar ,easily or for $ like you suggest, let alone Apartment dwellers having level 2 or better in their parking lots, extra metered to their rent or condo fees. I linked a article awhile back about Condos in Toronto expecting $25,000 to install metered level 2 in parking lots. But your solution, is just move ( or sell their spare ? ICE car ???? ) ....you obviously know little about the upheavel in housing availability right now. Oh and in Canada the place your renting already is held to control limited rent increases. But if you move you pay whatever rent or price they want. But it is just the " middle class" eh Grumpy they will figure it out while Govs force fit them into the EV world .

 

[sd455dan]

No offense grumpy, and others have pointed this out to you, is you diverge from a factual comment off onto another topic!

Try to connect the dots and stay on topic, except I don't believe you can do that.
Starting with the purpose, the mandate, eliminating ICE, Federal and state tax (credit/rebate/refund/deduction) the reasoning behind EVs is to reduce pollution.
That's a fact.
Then someone mentions speed, FSD, fantastic stereo system, etc. What the blue blazes does that have to do with reducing pollutants and moving away from petroleum?
Someone loves the fantastic acceleration, great sound system & technology and I and all taxpayers (90% take advantage of it) are paying for that!???!
Of course you'll quote this in your usual off-topic way! Go ahead...

If Tesla removed all of the GREAT extras- Tech, stereo, more powerful motors, and even reduced battery size and type,

The car would still qualify for the tax break the same as it would with them.
Tesla does not as yet build a tin can econobox.

Tesla was originally not eligible for the tax break but Bi--- made sure others were. Magically the price cut off just missed Tesla's

I posted way back that had to have looked also like picking favorites like GM "YOU LED MARY"... when GM was selling orders of magnitude less EV's
Don't blame Tesla for cutting their profits to qualify for a break they were not responsible and mostly excluded from,

Obviously this ticked off Musk enough to drop prices so they would qualify.

Heck thinking back, Musk / Tesla was Completely Excluded from the original big government EV push.


In a big city the EV's Do reduce pollution, like unburned hydrocarbons carbon monoxide yada yada. Which does make for better air to breath (unless the EV catches on fire.) Do I care not really. jmo and 2 cents.

The EPA laws are to strict especially on diesels already.

 

[Grumpycat]

Starting with the purpose, the mandate, eliminating ICE, Federal and state tax (credit/rebate/refund/deduction) the reasoning behind EVs is to reduce pollution.

The purpose behind EV mandates (which will never happen) to to establish little mens' places in history, such as Al Gore. And little girls, such as Greta.

"Existential Climate Threat" is nothing but a call for a single world wide totalitarian non-Capitalist economy run by a few elite, all because "the threat is too great!"

I bought two EVs (so far) because I found them to be nicer, funner, and less expensive than anything else of interest.

 

[Grumpycat]

Well Grumpy Give it a rest with your holier than thou attitude.

Facts hurt.

Quite frankly I suspect I was doing a solar system many years before you.

What do you know about my PV experience? Nothing. You think because I am installing a system on new house I have never had one before? Or what I did in college? You know so much that isn't true!

... is the middle class you so conveniently ignore ain't going to be doing $15,000 solar ,easily or for $ like you suggest, let alone Apartment dwellers having level 2 or better in their parking lots, extra metered to their rent or condo fees. I linked a article awhile back about Condos in Toronto expecting $25,000 to install metered level 2 in parking lots.

Article would not have been noticed had it not contained an exaggerated claim supporting a narrative. Retired from a defense contractor. I know all about how to inflate a cost estimate beyond reason, especially if it is something we didn't want the customer to ask us to do.

Remember the poor Canadian Ford Lightning owner who tried to vacation to Michigan or Ohio? He paid $10,000 to $25,000 CDN to put a "charger" in his Canadian home, and he was a home builder. What the article didn't tell you was he installed Ford's bidirectional EVSE which optionally converts the Lightning into a home backup battery. Requires extensive rewiring to do that. Stupid to do but for new construction.

"Install L2? Oh, I'm pretty sure we have to totally excavate your existing parking lot because the asphalt is not up to current code, we can't patch it where we have to lay wires. The fees to dispose of old at the dump are astronomical. Cost of petroleum has driven up the cost of new asphalt. You'll need 6" of gravel foundation. We'll have to let it settle for 6 months before repaving..."

But your solution, is just move ( or sell their spare ? ICE car ???? ) ....you obviously know little about the upheavel in housing availability right now. Oh and in Canada the place your renting already is held to control limited rent increases. But if you move you pay whatever rent or price they want. But it is just the " middle class" eh Grumpy they will figure it out while Govs force fit them into the EV world .

Yeah, Canada. You guys got it bad with housing costs doubling the past 6 years. Must be those darned EVs! I laugh at your self-inflicted pain.

 

[Grumpycat]

In a big city the EV's Do reduce pollution, like unburned hydrocarbons carbon monoxide yada yada. Which does make for better air to breath (unless the EV catches on fire.) Do I care not really. jmo and 2 cents.

About 10 years ago I found there were a lot of pundits shooting off at the mouth inventing facts they heard 3rd or 10th hand about EV emissions vs coal and others. But there wasn't any real math or engineering. The EPA went to great lengths to hide the information.

What I found was if CO2 "greenhouse gas" is your thing, my 2013 Tesla Model S 85 at 380 Wh/mile from the grid per EPA was comparable to most any 30 MPG gasoline ICE. The Tesla on coal.

The difficulty is how the EPA publishes emissions data for North American coal fired electricity in different units than one uses to purchase electricity. BTU, if I recall correctly, but even then it needed several conversions.

The EPA laws are to strict especially on diesels already.

The carcinogens in diesel emissions are nasty but solid particle carbon is harmless in rural environments.

 

[wawajake]

Facts hurt.

What do you know about my PV experience? Nothing. You think because I am installing a system on new house I have never had one before? Or what I did in college? You know so much that isn't true!


Article would not have been noticed had it not contained an exaggerated claim supporting a narrative. Retired from a defense contractor. I know all about how to inflate a cost estimate beyond reason, especially if it is something we didn't want the customer to ask us to do.

Remember the poor Canadian Ford Lightning owner who tried to vacation to Michigan or Ohio? He paid $10,000 to $25,000 CDN to put a "charger" in his Canadian home, and he was a home builder. What the article didn't tell you was he installed Ford's bidirectional EVSE which optionally converts the Lightning into a home backup battery. Requires extensive rewiring to do that. Stupid to do but for new construction.

"Install L2? Oh, I'm pretty sure we have to totally excavate your existing parking lot because the asphalt is not up to current code, we can't patch it where we have to lay wires. The fees to dispose of old at the dump are astronomical. Cost of petroleum has driven up the cost of new asphalt. You'll need 6" of gravel foundation. We'll have to let it settle for 6 months before repaving..."


Yeah, Canada. You guys got it bad with housing costs doubling the past 6 years. Must be those darned EVs! I laugh at your self-inflicted pain.

1) I wasn't challenging your PV past experience, I was defending mine and challenging your assertion earlier that a $15,000 solar system you installed a few years ago is applicable to middle class home owners or apartment/ condo dwellers to charge their EVs overnight. 2) you go off track about a Ford Lightning ???? lost us all there Grumps 3) you go off track about apartment parking paving costs , lost us all there again,..... maybe if you gave alternative costs to install level 2 charge capable wiring from the Apartment main load centre , to each parking spot and include a meter for each dedicated parking spot and means to prevent others from using, and oh ...maybe even upgrade the main source wiring to the Apartment load centre, so that safe by inspection standards. Instead you assume the contractors are evil tricksters like your used to ....hmm me thinks thou doth protest too much. 4) Canada's "self inflicted" pain of housing shortages is similar reasons to USA , significant increases in population coming in, labour unavailability after economic stall of pandemic. .... either way it doesn't change the lack of housing with EV charge capability in both our countries......but thanks for your empathy for those caught in the housing squeeze and economics of printing money. While their ICE car becomes more expensive to fill because of taxation, and red tape ( not oil rarity) , and their electricity becomes more expensive to cover infrastructure upgrades etc. But lets expect the middle class to be so happy that a EV world is being forced on them at a rate that will probably also cripple our economies . Yep so excited . ....hmmm

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

A good friend lives in LA. He & wife each have an EV. Smog there is terrible and they understand power production causes pollution but at least air is better where they are in Rancho Palos Verdes.
Someone make a small (tin can econobox...whatever you want to call it) without bells & whistles & jimmies. Simple basic transportation.
One old car I've had 50 years is a '58 Metropolitan. 52 h.p., 78 mph top speed...but it gets 50 mpg.
New it was sold an an inexpensive grocery getter. Make something similar, smaller efficient motor(s) & battery it would be way less expensive and satisfies the intended purpose. 0-60 in 10 seconds is fine.

 

[ultrarunner]

I thought the Smart car was to be the grocery getter and high mpg but didn’t pan out that from the few I know that own.