Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #16,641  
Following battery discussion...

My I phone 6s will be 9 years on original 2015 battery...
My 7 Plus is on it's original battery which lasts maybe 5 minutes. I keep it on my Sony clock/radio which has a Lightning mount, playing music w/o SIM card. Makes a pretty good iPod. Have thought about paying Apple $70 for a new battery, or cheaper at one of many 3rd party repair services.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #16,642  
The difference as I see it is mandated emissions is to lower CO2, etc.
Battery warranty means either the manufacturer adds replacement battery cost into EV or does it mean taxpayers pay just as they're paying for tax "credits"? 8 years/100K miles. Who's paying for the replacement battery?
The manufacturer pays for replacement, but only if the manufacturer fails to design or produce a battery which serves the duration of the warranty.

Just as Gale got a new LEAF battery long time ago.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #16,643  
You sure do like to play with words to impress yourself as if you understand what Tesla does at a Supercharger. You've obviously never sat in a Tesla at a Supercharger and watched what happens. You haven't bothered to research any real data you only mine 3rd and 4th hand descriptions by others like yourself who do not understand and only talk among themselves.

This is an old chart from 2014. Sorry the units are not in the nonsense "percentage" you use, as is commonly used by spin analysts. Time vs miles of range on a V2 120 kW Supercharger.

Things don't magically slow down at "80%", has been slowing for a long time before that.

View attachment 857733

I had a Model S 85 which appears to have a 252 mile charge after 75 minutes. 80% would be 201 miles which is about 40 minutes. So that last 20% took 25 minutes when 0-80% took 40 minutes.

But none of this matters. Is minutia. If you really want a 100% charge then using L2 at home doesn't slow until the last few %.

You needlessly fret about Supercharger wear. Tesla goes to great lengths to minimize battery wear. My Model S had 93% of the original range after 10 years. 246 miles full charge, and the above chart was using 252.

You needlessly fret about corner conditions when Supercharging is slowed. But those corner conditions do not occur with L2 charging at home. Need I repeat, "Gas Station Model Fallacy"?
What a bunch of contradictory double talk. You say supercharging is fine, but then you say Tesla goes to great lengths to minimize battery wear…(drum roll)…and your own previous post, you admit very little fast C3 charging rate is actually happening at a supercharger.
🙄
Then you try to wrap it all neatly up by ignoring all manufacturers encouraging as much level 1, and 2 charging, throw in a couple straw men, and conclude I haven’t researched “real data”
 
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   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #16,644  
That this is news to you says a lot about what you don't know about EVs.

The battery is considered an emissions device and by Federal law it has to keep the vehicle operating correctly and cleanly for the stated duration. Just as the catalytic converter in your ICE.

The warranty is 10 years/150,000 miles in CARB states.
Prove it.
I say you’re wrong again.
EV’s won’t get that change until 2026.
You’re probably confusing EV’s like Teslas, with hybrids.
But hey, you’re not one to let little factual details get in your way.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #16,645  
Neither. Lithium is not consumed.
This is just like, you. Endless straw man arguments ….. He never said it was “consumed”.

I said I wouldn’t bother wasting my time, pointing out your endless straw man arguments. I guess I’m having a weak moment here, early morning😆
 
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   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #16,646  
Love it. So easy😆

No traffic during the demonstration

Neighbor just happens to be there at the right time for the handoff.

One car is parked backwards on the street 😃

Simply bend over, and carefully fish your cable through it twice each day. More fun on rainy days

It’ll work great in the winter with snow and ice

No worries about someone slipping on the smooth steel

 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #16,647  
U.S. Massachusetts version. The politician interviewed had to say “inequitable”. Luv it.
It’ll be paradise with these all over the place. Should be great for elderly, or someone in a wheelchair going up and over those every 40 feet.

Looks like bending over wrestling that 20 lb plastic cable protector ramp twice a day, should be a fun in the winter, when you’re bundled up With a thick winter jacket, gloves, and snow on the ground.

Looks like a great practical solution for elderly drivers too
I can envision granny setting up, breaking down that assembly.

Real Progress

 
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   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #16,648  
What a bunch of contradictory double talk. You say supercharging is fine, but then you say Tesla goes to great lengths to minimize battery wear…(drum roll)…and your own previous post, you admit very little fast C3 charging rate is actually happening at a supercharger.
🙄
Then you try to wrap it all neatly up by ignoring all manufacturers encouraging as much level 1, and 2 charging, throw in a couple straw men, and conclude I haven’t researched “real data”
Isn't hilarious, when a Tesla user forum , and also Txdons link with real data lays to waste Grumpy's missinformation or exaggeration, or leaving out key details....but Grumpy claims his expertise is better...... wow.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #16,649  
peak EV capitalization occurred in the first half of 2022


The EV Stock Bubble Bursting Has Cost Investors $1.5 Trillion​


isker stock dropped 55% this past week after The Wall Street Journal reported it was preparing for a possible bankruptcy filing. The startup’s current challenges are the latest in a growing line of challenges for almost every electric vehicle start-up.

Building a car business has proven harder than most imagined, costing investors trillions of dollars.

Fisker issued a statement Thursday saying, “As a matter of company policy, Fisker does not comment on market rumors and speculation. However, Fisker often works with outside advisors to help manage its business and assist in developing and executing strategies. Fisker is focused on raising additional capital and engaging in a strategic partnership with a large automaker.”

Recent declines have left Fisker, Canoo, Lordstown Motors, Arrival, and Faraday Future, along with electric trucking companies Nikola, and Hyliion, with market capitalizations under $1 billion each.

At each stock’s peak, the combined market value of those seven totaled almost $100 billion. Now it totals about $1 billion.

A lot of strategies are represented by the seven. Fisker is asset-light, using Magna International to build its cars. Lordstown has less expensive capacity purchased from General Motors. Arrival tried to pioneer microfactories. Canoo pioneered multipurpose, highly configurable commercial vehicles. And Faraday focused on ultraluxury EVs.

In trucking, Nikola focuses on vertically integrating hydrogen production. Hyliion can sell its systems to existing truck manufacturers.

All have hit roadblocks because building cars, and a car company, is hard and requires billions of dollars in start-up capital and working capital.

None of the seven is close to turning a profit, according to Wall Street estimates aggregated by FactSet. XPeng, NIO, Polestar Automotive, Lotus Technology, Lucid, VinFast Auto, and Rivian Automotive aren’t profitable, either. Those seven still have market capitalizations greater than $1 billion each.

Today, the market value of that group is roughly $58 billion combined. At their peak capitalizations, the figure was roughly $650 billion. The peak was helped by wild early trading in VinFast, which pushed that stock’s market capitalization above $200 billion.

Today, just three EV makers generate consistent profits: Tesla, BYD, and Li Auto. Those three are worth roughly $650 billion combined. At their peaks, the trio were worth about $1.4 trillion.

Overall, EV makers’ combined market value is some $700 billion—Tesla is about 75% of the total—down a whopping $1.5 trillion from peak capitalizations.

Most of the peak capitalization occurred in the first half of 2022. That, for investors, was peak-EV.


The peak market values for GM and Ford Motor were also in the first half of 2023, according to Bloomberg. Those two got swept up in EV hope as well.

The Detroit-Three auto makers, GM, Ford, and Chrysler parent Stellantis, have a combined market value of some $185 billion. Their peak figure was about $320 billion.

GM, Ford, and Stellantis are all profitable and make EVs. They might win their share of EV business in the future. Investors, however, have never valued them like growth-laden start-up stocks.

Toyota Motor, today, is worth some $383 billion. Its peak market capitalization happened on Mar. 6. It doesn’t sell a lot of battery-electric vehicles yet, but its hybrids are still hot sellers.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #16,650  
It is sort of wild how valuations have plummeted. And to be fair, this isn’t a Tesla thread, it’s an EV thread, which looks at the sector as a whole I’d presume. And the sector as a whole, is sort of a mess at the moment. The fed demanding a certain % of cars be EVs for environmental reasons, automakers trying to comply, but getting financially hammered while doing so. Buyers being bribed into buying with large scale tax incentives. I’d be much more pro EV if mandates went away and tax incentives were removed. Im not a big fan of large government picking winners and losers. All of this happening during a historic inflationary period. I’m so weary of the talk of inflation and also the promotion of more and more subsidies.
 
 
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