Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

[Fuddyduddy1952]

So the federal government mandates the battery warranty?

Aren't tractor emissions systems also federally mandated?

The difference as I see it is mandated emissions is to lower CO2, etc.
Battery warranty means either the manufacturer adds replacement battery cost into EV or does it mean taxpayers pay just as they're paying for tax "credits"? 8 years/100K miles. Who's paying for the replacement battery?

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

The difference as I see it is mandated emissions is to lower CO2, etc.
Battery warranty means either the manufacturer adds replacement battery cost into EV or does it mean taxpayers pay just as they're paying for tax "credits"? 8 years/100K miles. Who's paying for the replacement battery?

Same people who fronted $7500 for the car, and subsidized chargers.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/17/cars/vw-scout-american-electric-suvs/index.html

That will be a blast from the past hopefully for VW.

A battery powered VW "Scout" that looks like this is as appealing as an electric spaghetti fork. THEODORE ORNAS is spinning in his box.

 

[Grumpycat]

Exactly. You just stated a fact of the Tesla supercharger propaganda Film-Flam.

If you haven’t preconditioned your batteries, if you’re below 20%, if you’re above 80%, if you’re in a hot environment, and on and on… the DC fast charger will either charge only briefly at the 3C rate, or not at 3C at all.
Your Tesla will throttle back the charge rate to minimize the cell degradation that would otherwise occur if you actually were 3C charging.

Looks impressive though, doesn’t it, seeing the cars hooked up to supercharger stations?
Uniformed people don’t know their charge rate is actually throttled.

As far as your question to me about statistics of actual charging at 3C rate battery degradation …., as you would say… look it up. Easy to find on the internet. There’s a famous study without throttling that showed 27% degradation vs 23% for level 2.

That’s a 17% faster loss of capacity. I’d be worried about that on a $15k battery

You sure do like to play with words to impress yourself as if you understand what Tesla does at a Supercharger. You've obviously never sat in a Tesla at a Supercharger and watched what happens. You haven't bothered to research any real data you only mine 3rd and 4th hand descriptions by others like yourself who do not understand and only talk among themselves.

This is an old chart from 2014. Sorry the units are not in the nonsense "percentage" you use, as is commonly used by spin analysts. Time vs miles of range on a V2 120 kW Supercharger.

Things don't magically slow down at "80%", has been slowing for a long time before that.

I had a Model S 85 which appears to have a 252 mile charge after 75 minutes. 80% would be 201 miles which is about 40 minutes. So that last 20% took 25 35 minutes when 0-80% took 40 minutes.

But none of this matters. Is minutia. If you really want a 100% charge then using L2 at home doesn't slow until the last few %.

You needlessly fret about Supercharger wear. Tesla goes to great lengths to minimize battery wear. My Model S had 93% of the original range after 10 years. 246 miles full charge, and the above chart was using 252.

You needlessly fret about corner conditions when Supercharging is slowed. But those corner conditions do not occur with L2 charging at home. Need I repeat, "Gas Station Model Fallacy"?

edit: corrected math. 75 - 40 = 35 minutes not 25.

 

[Grumpycat]

Same people who fronted $7500 for the car, and subsidized chargers.

We've been over this here. Tesla Superchargers were not subsidized. Not until Ford, GM, and others jumped on the NACS bandwagon, not until Tesla started building Version 4 Superchargers with CCS and NACS.

To-date there are very few Tesla V4 Superchargers.

 

[Grumpycat]

Do not charge your EV every day for longevity.

Why EV Batteries Last So Much Longer Than Cell Phone Batteries

If both cell phone batteries and EV batteries are lithium ion chemistries, why do we expect to see such noticeable battery degradation in our cell phones in only a year or two?

www.recurrentauto.com

I don't see "do not charge EV every day". The author is a "climate scientist" not an engineer.

She is correct on "depth of discharge". The deeper the cycle the greater the wear. This is why hitting an EV or hybrid battery with thousands of relatively small charge/discharge cycles doesn't result in much wear.

Charging every day minimizes the depth of discharge, which maximizes battery life. My 10 year old battery was plugged in all night most every night for 10 years.

 

[Grumpycat]

Which products use the most tons of lithium per year?
1. Cell phones and battery tools or
2. vehicles

Neither. Lithium is not consumed.

 

[Grumpycat]

I briefly looked at the article but this caught my attention: "The federal government mandates EV battery warranties last for at least 8 years or 100,000 miles".
Wait/What!!!???!!!
Since when and why is the federal government getting involved in vehicle warranties? A federal mandate.

That this is news to you says a lot about what you don't know about EVs.

The battery is considered an emissions device and by Federal law it has to keep the vehicle operating correctly and cleanly for the stated duration. Just as the catalytic converter in your ICE.

The warranty is 10 years/150,000 miles in CARB states.

 

[Grumpycat]

My neighbor that has the "Y" was critical of the Navigation system because of the cost of the updates, and because he could not plug in his phone and use Apple CarPlay navigation. But he also did not know the length (time) of the battery warranty. So Tesla owners What is the cost of the NAV updates and can you really not use Apple CarPlay?

"NAV updates" are free. Tesla uses Google Maps, live.

"Standard Connectivity" provides less via the cell network but most of it if connected via WiFi (such as if one is at home or using one's cellphone as a WiFi hotspot for the car to access). All firmware updates are available when connected via WiFi.

"Premium Connectivity" adds a number of things such as live traffic updates. $10/month or $100/year.

https://www.tesla.com/support/connectivity

 

[Grumpycat]

It is worth it to me, I Like the Live NAV on the screen and also voice command music selection.
i don't have any Apple aps or devices so guess I don't miss it.

I have Apple devices and don't miss CarPlay.

Apple Maps are good, but so is the Google Maps Tesla uses for navigation.

Tesla used to say their music streaming as via Slacker. There is some streaming service I use in the car which appears to be unbranded. Have selected "Classic Rock" and killed ever Phil Collins/Genesis song which pops up, so none have appeared in weeks.

Learned with Slacker in the Model S to never like a Grateful Dead song. Like one and suddenly every other song is Grateful Dead. Spent weeks killing them.

The Premium connectivity allows net surfing as well. The cars screen produces a Very high quality picture on streamed 4K. content.

Took a friend on my 150 mile round trip to TN. Let him drive the return trip. Only after did I let him play with the multimedia features. Don't think the car will play videos when in motion but he was totally blown away playing a number of his favorite YouTube music videos. The standard sound system is very good. As good as the Premium sound system I optioned in 2013.