Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #1,361  
Coal fired plants so long as they are equipped with electrostatic precipitation are as clean as any other fossil fuel.
Yes...believe me...my cousin owns 13 coal fired foundries. Years ago...years ago he told me he got calls every day, "I see smoke coming out your smokestacks!"
"It's steam! Water vapor!" he replied.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #1,362  
It's like anything else. On plant side it's clean....... but what about the mining side????

Same thing with natural gas. Burns clean, but you gotta drill to get it.

How about lithium batteries for these EV's that they want to push on us.

Do they have any flipping clue to the amount of toxins involved with mining for those batteries?????

I'm willing to bet if you sent a few bus loads of those granola crunching hypocrites to a lithium mine and walked them through the leaching and other crap that's gets exposed they would be calling for the end of human existence
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   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #1,363  
People already figured it out and the details have been posted many times. During the pandemic, there was low demand, so the price dropped. People saved tons of money during the pandemic. The economy started booming, there's record employment levels, salaries are increasing, companies can't find people fast enough and pay them high enough wages to keep them, people have money to spend, they're buying up everything as fast as it can be put on the shelves. Which reduces supply. Which increases price.

I eat lunch with several guys that constantly comment on the price of fuel that's "killing me". So I asked all of them if they've:
- modified their driving habits because of it? Nope.
- How many times did you go out to eat last week? A few.
- Did you get a raise this year? Yes, we all did.
- Have you lowered your 401K contributions? No.
- Do you use credit cards that you don't pay off monthly? No.
- Have you had to cut back on anything at all? Not really.
- Do you want government to regulate industry? No.

But you want government to do something about the price of fuel? Uh, errr.

Fuel, food, building materials, clothing, cars, you name it; as long as people keep buying things companies will keep raising prices to see how much blood they can squeeze from that turnip. It will only reverse course when people stop buying things and that hasn't happened yet.

And, even if that does happen, prices will never go back to what they were, because on average, people make more money now than they did before, so prices will only drop as low as the market conditions warrant.

Supply and demand tempered by disposable and discretionary income.
You left out the fact that trillions of dollars were pumped into the economy that devalued the dollar a great deal and resulted in the highest inflation in 40 years.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #1,364  
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   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #1,366  
you were just bragging how short your payback period is, to now say adding batteries throws off the economics of the matter to the point you won't consider them.

Yes I question, not bash and there is a difference, the logic of going through the process of generating electricity to only put it back into the grid at net consumption. I know the sun is not shining everyday, so without batteries, you have to somehow make extra power those sunny days to make up for the cloudy days. Batteries solve the problem of clouds.


I don’t believe I made any claims of short paybacks on battery storage systems. Can you point to where I did?

I believe I made a pretty clear distinction that a grid tied solar in my situation was a relatively short payback and with the increasing utility rates is getting shorter. I indicated a battery storage system would not be a short payback as a reason why I chose to not install a system that would not save me $$. Different type of systems - Different ROI.

Bragging? Or pointing to a real example to counter a bunch of misinformation from those who don’t have actual experience?

Question is ‘How does the math or net metering work? or, what does the simple ROI look like?’

Bash is a false claim of payback in ‘50 years’ or commenting ‘there is no point’ trying to indicate that all of those who install these systems are somehow not able to grasp the concept.


Batteries have their limited place and applicability. Solar is very rarely a viable sole substitute to grid or other generation types. Solar can be a great supplement in cases where weather, property and location allow.

Planning for battery storage for how many days in a row with poor production is no easy task. Nor is planning for a system that can handle many homes peak loads in the dead of winter. Most property (including my own) cannot accommodate enough panels to completely replace another generation source in its entirety. The want to do that is completely different than the want to offset most or all utility bills.

The latter is economy based the prior is more of a way of life.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #1,369  
I guess I'm the odd man out since I disagree with this.
"But you want government to do something about the price of fuel? Uh, errr."
Well...government (our CURRENT) government DID do something about it.
Is or isn't ***** responsible for closing the pipeline, stopping new wells, letting existing wells pump. etc?
Somehow, magically, fuel more that doubles in price under this administration because NOW is the time for big oil companies to overcharge the public??? They magically didn't think to do that two years ago???
UHHHHH, ERRRRR!!?!???
Gee...wow!
And commodities also increasing in price, again especially in the last two years...it's Proctor & Gamble, Nike, auto industry, on & on & on...They're "squeezing the stupid turnips", raping the public, raking in $billions...BECAUSE THEY CAN?!?!?
UHHHHH, ERRRRRR!?!?!
You believe that? Gee...it couldn't be runaway inflation could it?
Think man, think!
Now...your turn to evicerate me, tell me how stupid I am...go for it.
There was no pipeline to close. It hadn't been built yet.
Another path already exists (see map below).
The Keystone XL (XL stands for Export Limited) in green was another path to get the Canadian tar sands oil from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico for export. Most of that oil was/is not designated for the U.S. market. So it would have little effect on gas prices. After construction, the pipeline would have provided a whopping 50-100 permanent jobs, so that's a bust as well.

What new wells did the current administration stop? They had to cancel three lease sales due to lawsuits on two of them and lack of interest by the oil industry on purchasing oil leases in Alaska. There are currently millions of acres of oil leases already in the hands of oil companies that are not being developed. So until the oil companies start running out of leases (they are nowhere close) there really isn't a lack of places to drill that are already approved. It's the oil companies that are choosing not to drill on leases they already own.

I do not understand your comment about 'letting existing wells pump'.

On our trip to Oklahoma and back last week, we saw many idle oil wells not pumping, and many others that were pumping. The ones that were pumping were visibly larger and newer than the older smaller ones that were not, so someone is investing in updating oil wells out there.

As of last week, current US refinery capacity was above 93%. So even if they had more oil in the system, the refineries are already at capacity. There would be ZERO more gasoline on the market if more oil is put into the system.


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