Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[buickanddeere]

I'm sure it's true with modern equipment and new buildings etc...but what I'm referring to has nothing to do with audio noise...it about all the RF and microwaves that are constantly bombarding any populated space and beyond...people are so used to it and suddenly it's not there...

Been there done that with an RF meter and a Db meter together . People notice the lack of low frequency sound impacting their bodies . You can be an anti RF type if you want but stick to science instead of conjecture and what you want to hear .
Sorry to burst you bubble .

 

[/pine]

Been there done that with an RF meter and a Db meter together . People notice the lack of low frequency sound impacting their bodies . You can be an anti RF type if you want but stick to science instead of conjecture and what you want to hear .
Sorry to burst you bubble .

LoL...hate to bust your bubble...but I'm not anti rf etc...just relating a real phenomenon...the experiences I have witnessed were during construction jobs and there was no lack of any level of audio frequencies...doh!

It was a visiting radiologist that pointed it out to a crew that mentioned the "weird feeling" when they were hanging a door (btw...the door was 4' wide and with the layer of lead weighed just under 300#'s)

Didn't need any meters to notice a difference...:laughing:

 

[Grumpycat]

Total all the energy from manufacture to disposal of the entire EV vs the entire ICE vehicle . Now consider the source of the EV痴 power . The EV costs more and pollutes more .
Sorry but you sacred cow of world peace and zero pollution does not exist . Nor can you wish it into existence with money and research .

Again you are conveniently stop thinking when you reach your desired conclusion.

Accounting theoretical consumption is for fools. The Actuary's motto, "Forget what it is, what do you want it to be?" You want it to be all about how much the vehicle weighs. You want it to be all about pollution mining lithium. You don't want to consider the energy or waste to refine gasoline or diesel. You don't want to consider the waste or pollution for forming steel. You don't want to consider the energy or waste for producing aluminum.

Hey, how about all that waste and inefficiency using an 8,000 pound tractor when a 5,000 pound tractor would do?

And you pretend none of the above is recyclable. Lithium batteries do not consume lithium any more than lead-acid batteries consume lead.

The bottom line is that for the cost of a gallon of gasoline one can go 93 miles in a wasteful EV such as my luxurious 2013 Tesla Model S 85. Or 135 miles in a very nice newer more efficient Tesla Model 3.

It is not me hammering on pollution, but you. I have always said The Almighty Dollar is the only honest metric of consumption because at every stage of production no man is willing to work for free so his efforts accumulate until the consumer is ultimately reached. But you cite claims of academics in ivory towers who have never produced anything more than words and pay no price for being wrong.

I own somewhere around 10 ICE vehicles, and one EV. The beauty of the EV is that it is agnostic as to the source of its energy. Makes absolutely no difference as to whether it is nuclear, coal, oil, natural gas, solar, wind, hydro, union or right-to-work. But the gasoline and diesel engines are very picky about the precise formulation of their fuels. Can dilute gasoline a bit with ethanol, but not without consequences. But the EV doesn't care whether it is fed 120VAC, 240VAC, or anything in between. Even thrives on 400VDC.

Twice this past week I made 150 mile days in an ICE, left the Tesla at home. Cost 3x as much to drive the ICE but I wanted 4WD at my destination and didn't feel like washing manure off the Tesla.

 

[Grumpycat]

But a locomotive is heavy! How can that be efficient?

Is there anything we can learn here to apply to automobiles?

Locomotives are diesel-electric hybrids. Just as a Prius is a gasoline-electric hybrid, only the Prius also has a relatively small battery and the locomotive not.

IIRC a modern locomotive is rated 425 miles/gallon/ton of freight.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Humans have lived amid a sea of lies for recorded history. How the heck is the average Joe supposed to know what is TRUTH?

 

[/pine]

Humans have lived amid a sea of lies for recorded history. How the heck is the average Joe supposed to know what is TRUTH?

Besides the artistic license factor (that even so called journalists claim rights to)...

There is also the "eye witness" syndrome...since the advent of the camera and video camera most history was told from witness and eye witness accounts of whatever...(Ask any trial lawyer about the reliability of eye witnesses)...Take ten people that were audience to some type of event and you will get ten different versions of what happened...

History is no different...(unreliable)...

What I find funny is all these people writing books and making TV shows that claim they know how something "really happened" when all they have to start is the same old accounts that have been around since whatever events actually took place...yet they claim to have "new evidence"...LoL...!

 

[Maxify55]

I admit that I copied and pasted this from another individual far more insightful than myself but you'll have to admit that the writer's point is well made.
Enjoy!
**************************************************************
I'm an engineer & I love the electric vehicle technology.
However, I have been troubled for a longtime by the fact that the electrical energy to keep the batteries charged has to come from the grid and that means more power generation and a huge increase in the distribution infrastructure.
Whether generated from coal, gas, oil, wind or sun, installed generation capacity is limited.
A friend sent me the following that says it very well.
You should all take a look at this short article.


If electric cars do not use gasoline, they will not participate in paying the tax on every gallon of gas that is sold for automobiles, which was enacted years ago to help maintain our roads and bridges.
The electric cars will use the roads and not pay for their upkeep!

In case you were thinking of buying hybrid or an electric car: Ever since the advent of electric cars, the REAL cost per mile of those things has never been discussed. All you ever heard was the mpg in terms of gasoline, with nary a mention of the cost of electricity to run it . This is the first article I've ever seen and tells the story pretty much as I expected it to.

Electricity has to be one of the least efficient ways to power things, yet they're being shoved down our throats. Glad somebody finally put engineering and math to paper.

At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro Executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious.

If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you have to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service On our small street (approximately 25 homes), The electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla, each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.


This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as our "genius" elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy these things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead end road that it will be presented with an 'OOPS...!' and a shrug.

If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are eco-friendly, just read the following. Note: If you ARE a green person, read it anyway. It's enlightening.

Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors and he writes, "For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine. Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the
16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles."


It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging Time) would be 20 mph. According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned , so I looked up what I pay for electricity.

I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 Mpg = $0.10 per mile.


The gasoline powered car costs about $25,000 while the Volt costs $46,000 plus. So the Canadian Government wants loyal Canadians not to do the math, but simply pay twice as much for a car, that costs more than seven times as much to run, and takes three times longer to drive across the country.



And NONE of this discusses the disposal cost of the batteries once they are used up and need to be replaced!!!

 

[California]

"Be Very Afraid". (ie That will never work.)

EV's aren't for everyone, especially if you are very rural. It's natural they are first adopted where hydro electricity is cheap and gas is $3.50 and up. And you can recharge at home with overnight low electric rates. Not so suitable if your apartment won't let you charge there. Also note Tesla's Superchargers are intended for mid-journey top-ups on a road trip, not daily recharge. Again, EV's aren't a good match for everyone.

 

[Jstpssng]

^^^^^
Many if not all of the above has been discussed, hashed, and rehashed in this and other threads... as well as other places throughout the on and offline world. Maxify's quote or whatever it was is just another way of saying "It won't work, we've never done it that way before. The way that my father's grandfather did it is the only possible way to do things."
An engineer's job is to find solutions... I call BS that the above was written by one. Perhaps by somebody who flunked out in 1st semester....

I'm an admitted and avowed Luddite, yet even I don't understand why people are so against EVs. I see a lot of advantages, especially for somebody like me who is trying to keep a couple of 4wd pickups running but really don't need something that big to run down to the post office, or up to the diner for Sunday morning breakfast. Yes, they are costly now. Yet as demand increases price will decrease... and I believe in the ability of our country to overcome things like an outdated electrical distribution system.

Oh yeah, fuel taxes haven't been enough to support our highway infrastructure for years.

 

[JasperFrank]

Truth is democracy is an aberration in human history. it only existed for about 40 years in Athens. Somehow we still think this is a standard. Even if it hasn't happened again, for thousands of years later. We still have Kings, that are called something else, and we still have bloodlines that own near everything. Just like it use to be, and just as it always will be. Owning an electric car doesn't change this. Here is a Vichy era electric.. it would go 60 miles round trip: In 1943.