Basics on making up steel tubes with JIC ends

[joea99]

Thinking of making up steel hydraulic lines with JIC ends, if not now, down the line. I know the basics of flaring, having done many automotive brake lines and copper fuel oil lines but some questions I cannot find answers to.

For instance, with hoses with JIC ends, one can have, say a 3/8 inch ID hose and maybe a 1/2 JIC end. It's just a matter of using the correct hose end, from what I've seen. How can I learn the methods and correct terminology for the equivalent deal is for steel? I presume there must be a way to use, say, 1/4 steel lines to got directly to a (say) 3/8 JIC fitting, without using extra adapters? Different "ferrules" maybe?

Or am I way off base?

 

[mrmikey]

IMHO you'd be better off using Swagelock or similar style compression fitting, tube to JIC. You can get fittings that go from one tubing size to a different size JIC male end, female end, NPT etc.. Just an example pic

 

[joea99]

IMHO you'd be better off using Swagelock or similar style compression fitting, tube to JIC. You can get fittings that go from one tubing size to a different size JIC male end, female end, NPT etc.. Just an example pic
View attachment 747180

You may be right. I was brought up to scorn "compression fittings", so I have a skeptical view of using them at high pressures.

That said, I've seen OEM's Kubota among them, offer add on kits that use Swagelock, so, I guess they do the job.

Added: I'm guessing this is the "High Pressure Cone and Ferrule" type?

 

[LouNY]

A Swagelock or even a Parker or Bi-lok an Hy_lok Steel or Stainless Steel Compression fitting installed properly will be stronger then the tube used.

 

[joea99]

A Swagelock or even a Parker or Bi-lok an Hy_lok Steel or Stainless Steel Compression fitting installed properly will be stronger then the tube used.

OK.

I'm more concerned about making good leak free pipes and having them stay that way. Since there seem to be several makers of this type of thing, I guess they've been proven in use, or you guys would not be suggesting them.

 

[joea99]

Off hand any of you know if those type fittings work only with steel and stainless, or with the cupro-nickle work well also? It's claimed to be able to withstand the pressure (2100 psi) but it being softer concerns me.

 

[Sportsman762]

Most tractor lines are steel or stainless steel. This is because cupro-nickel are easier to damage, also working pressure is not always enough for hydraulics. I believe with a B21 you will need 2500 PSI working pressure absolute minimum, but a 3000 PSI working pressure would be safer. A common set up for hydraulic lines is to use a swagelok style fitting, or to flare the line and use a JIC or SAE fitting. I will use Parker examples, but there are many other manufactures out there. Also note that Tubes are measured on the OD, and hoses are measured like pipes on the ID. It is normal to use a hose one size smaller than the tube, ex: 3/8" hose with 1/2' tube. 1/4" tube will not let hardly any flow through it and will most likely cause the relief to open on the valve as soon as it is actuated due to the inability to handle the B21 flow.

For example the Parker Ferulok is the bite type fitting. It is to be used with 3/8" Steel or Stainless Steel tubing 0.035"-0.095" wall thickness and are good for up to 5,000 PSI for most fittings. The advantage with tube bite is that you can get different thread ends, such as JIC, NPT, ORB, etc. If you want to jump a size or two then you would have the best luck with a tube bite.

Another way is to flare the tube, JIC is the most common. You would need a quality flaring set such as a Ridgid 377. For Parker you would put a BTX nut and a TX sleeve, then flare it.

What are you trying to accomplish? It would help with the recommendations.

 

[oldnslo]

I have never seen step size a flare tube nut and sleeve that would connect 3/8” tube to a 1/2” fitting. Flaring process is very similar to copper lines.

swagelok or compression fittings may not work on softer tubing. Reason is the tube may collapse before the sealing Ferrell does.

a more leak free but more difficult tube end is ORFS O-Ring Face Seal. You can purchase ferrels than silver solder onto steel tubing. The fitting are also typically more expensive.

 

[joea99]

Most tractor lines are steel or stainless steel. This is because cupro-nickel are easier to damage, also working pressure is not always enough for hydraulics. I believe with a B21 you will need 2500 PSI working pressure absolute minimum, but a 3000 PSI working pressure would be safer. A common set up for hydraulic lines is to use a swagelok style fitting, or to flare the line and use a JIC or SAE fitting. I will use Parker examples, but there are many other manufactures out there. Also note that Tubes are measured on the OD, and hoses are measured like pipes on the ID. It is normal to use a hose one size smaller than the tube, ex: 3/8" hose with 1/2' tube. 1/4" tube will not let hardly any flow through it and will most likely cause the relief to open on the valve as soon as it is actuated due to the inability to handle the B21 flow.

For example the Parker Ferulok is the bite type fitting. It is to be used with 3/8" Steel or Stainless Steel tubing 0.035"-0.095" wall thickness and are good for up to 5,000 PSI for most fittings. The advantage with tube bite is that you can get different thread ends, such as JIC, NPT, ORB, etc. If you want to jump a size or two then you would have the best luck with a tube bite.

Another way is to flare the tube, JIC is the most common. You would need a quality flaring set such as a Ridgid 377. For Parker you would put a BTX nut and a TX sleeve, then flare it.

What are you trying to accomplish? It would help with the recommendations.

Trying to finish up a top n tilt. I got the basic kit, links/cylinders from Kubota (actually woods/gannon) along with some fittings, quick connects and 4 hoses for the cylinders. The rest, spool valve, mount, etc, I've had to "make it up as I went along".

The Kubota kit came with instructions for their mount and valve kit and after a bit of back and forth with myself decided to make a mock up to resemble what they did, then cut metal when it "seemed right".

The lines from the valve to the bulkhead connectors for the lines to the cylinders turned out a bit more difficult to make up than I thought, being a rank amateur at hydraulics. Along with a local shop that is Parker affiliated, went with 1/4 inch lines from the valve a/b ports to the bulkheads, all JIC ends 90 at the valve, straight at the bulkhead. Despite all the prep work, the hoses are a bit tight and I'm going to have to add length from 2 of the valve fittings to raise them up a bit. I thought about using "long 90's" on those, but in "dry fits" it looked OK. I'm going try some fittings to add an inch in height, rather that waste the hoses I have. They are only abouy 6-7 inches overall, so, not much room to work.

But, even if it works OK, I'll get tired of how "home brew mechanic" it looks at will want a cleaner looking setup at some point. So, looking for options.

 

[LouNY]

I have never seen step size a flare tube nut and sleeve that would connect 3/8” tube to a 1/2” fitting. Flaring process is very similar to copper lines.

swagelok or compression fittings may not work on softer tubing. Reason is the tube may collapse before the sealing Ferrell does.

a more leak free but more difficult tube end is ORFS O-Ring Face Seal. You can purchase ferrels than silver solder onto steel tubing. The fitting are also typically more expensive.

The tubing has to be softer then the ferrules on a Swagelock type of fitting. I have used many SS fittings on soft drawn coiled copper tubing.
They do not leak when tightened properly which is one and one eight turn from finger tight. If over tightened they may leak. The ferrules will compress the tubing.