Basic Snowplow float question

[ElBarranco]

This is a question that's been addressed in other threads, but I"m still not clear on the answer.

I just got a Virnig 96" snowplow for my L48. … Virnig Manufacturing …

The dealer convinced me it was a great, well built unit. I have a Virning 4-in-1 bucker which I really like, so I went along.

My problem is with the float. This unit has none. I asked about that when I bought the thing, and the salesman told me it had plenty of float, but I think he was talking about left-right tilt float. When I plow with it I cannot get it to cut deep enough without lifting my front wheels off the ground. I have irregular gravel surfaces to plow - roads & driveway. The thing feels like a dozer blade, except the cutting edge can trip. I'm used to plows which hang from a chain so they can ride over irregular dips and rises. The problem I have when I try plowing my road is the plow suddenly hits a rise in the road, jams the front wheels off the ground and sends my flying sideways.

If I use the float position on my FEL the plow digs too deep. If I try to curl the blade up so it doesn't cut into the road the bottom of the loader arms dig into the snow. Seems to be no way to position the plow so the skid feet are holding the cutting edge just off the road surface.

I've read in other threads that some really like the no-float-except-FEL-float design. Do I simply not know how to operate this thing (always likely)? Or is it possible it just isn't a good match for my L48 and my gravel road? When I bought it there was a regular, chain-float unit right next to this one, but the salesman convinced me the Virnig was the better unit.

I've had a bit of trouble with the valves on the L48, and overall am not particularly happy with the service of my dealer. I'm wondering if this is just another case of him pulling a fast one on me. He said this is the first year they've carried Virnig plows, so I should have been wary, I suppose.

Thanks for any advice.

-robert

 

[zzvyb6]

Try backing up on the drive until the gravel gets more regular. The time to do this was before it froze and snowed. Use a large yaw angle on the blade so it slices the ice and snow instead of trying to chip it. My loader valve floats my unit perfectly. The blade is actually tipped upwards i.e. the bottom edge is forward of the top edge. This snaps the gravel upwards instead of trying to bury it. Set the slippers so the blade is just a bit above the riding surface.

 

[ElBarranco]

Thanks for the reply.

I wonder if my shoes/slippers are just too short. The salesman gave me extra washers for spacers, but even with those I can't get the slippers to settle on the roadway before the loader arms hit.

The road was in decent condition before winter. I worked on it quite a bit this summer. The problem is really the lie of the land.

I gather your plow is fixed to the loader arms, and all the float comes from the loader. My plow weights over 1,000 lbs, and the arms themselves are pretty heavy. I wonder if I've got too much weight?

thanks again,
-robert

 

[zzvyb6]

I no longer use the loader arms for snow plow application. The blade is too far forward of the tractor's c.g. That makes it difficult tokeep straight. I now use an old Fisher plow from a PU track. I dropped 2 arms forward from the MM mower porkchops and attached it there. I use the up/down circuit for blade up/down and curl for swing to left or right. Runs straight and true plus excellant snow throw.

Note my avator shows th setup.

 

[dirtworksequip]

ElB, it would be very difficult to run a blade in the float position on a stone road or driveway. It will always have the tendency to dig in. I'd suggest you run with the blade just above the stone removing the bulk of the snow and then finish up with a landscape rake if you have one. This way once the majority of the snow is off the roadway you can remove almost all the rest with the rake. The bonuses to this method is you will be popping up some stone for added traction plus grooming the road to a smoother surface by taking off the high spots.

Sincerely, Dirt

 

[6sunset6]

I no longer use the loader arms for snow plow application. The blade is too far forward of the tractor's c.g. That makes it difficult tokeep straight. I now use an old Fisher plow from a PU track. I dropped 2 arms forward from the MM mower porkchops and attached it there. I use the up/down circuit for blade up/down and curl for swing to left or right. Runs straight and true plus excellant snow throw.

Note my avator shows th setup.

I have the same problem . I use a plow on a QA , no mechanical float. If I use the FEL Float it won't steer. I have to raise the loader arms to keep some weight on the front tires. works ok but float would be better.
I wonder if I added weight to the front would it help. I have a couple of suitcase weights someplace.

 

[Ford850]

I have a Hiniker 7 1/2 foot blade on my loader. It does have a float chain so I do not have to let the loader arms float. I have a gravel drive, and with the shoes dropped below the blade edge, they just plow through the gravel from the weight of the floating blade, and the blade ends up plowing gravel anyway. You should be able to level your bucket indicator and still have enough shoe spacers to keep the blade 2 inches off the surface (on hard surfaces). If you don't, you can pick up spacers somewhere, as they are pretty standard. I think TSC carries them too. I just came in from plowing my drive, and I use Dirtworkshops method of trying to skim just above the gravel. It takes a lot of attention to the contours of the drive, and I have to nudge the loader up and down the whole trip, but it works fairly well. Some protions of the drive are harder packed and I can let the shoes float on that. I also have a 100' or so concrete portion to the drive and the blade works perfect on that.
Overall it is a decent set up, with the option to drop the quick attach snow blade and put the bucket on to move large piles or drifts when needed. I'm looking forward to more snows so I can practice more.

 

[number two]

Up here in snow country,anyone plowing gravel or dirt surfaces throw away the shoes and get a pipe. 1" or maybe 1 1/4" pipe and cut a slit in it,so it fits over the cutting edge of the plow blade. Of course figure out a way to secure it to the plow. The round pipe greatly reduces the tendency of the plow to dig in. After several weeks of cold and the ground gets frozen,take it off and run without shoes,letting the cutting edge scrape the ground clean. Weather warms up? Slip the pipe back on. I've had a mild winter where the pipe stayed on all winter. Even had one made for my front snowblower on my previous Kubota. Bought a new tractor with blower this year and am having the same problems as you. The ground is getting pretty hard so I'm having better luck. Sure hated to gouge up that new blower with gravel though. Wondering why I don't have a pipe for the new blower? My friend has been over twice taking measurements and left 8 days ago saying he'd weld up the mounting tabs and drop it off the next night after work. Of course I haven't seen it. I wonder if I shouldn't have given him those two cases of beer before he was finished? Seriously,the pipe thing does work very well for us. Perhaps it would for you. Good Luck!

 

[number two]

To clarify the last post,operate the plow with pipe in float position! Sorry

 

[ElBarranco]

I like the pipe idea. Can see rigging that up eventually, after I get the right plow figured out.

I understand that even with a "chain float" I'd have to feather the controls. I plow with my RTV also (works great, just takes too long) and I have to raise and lower the plow as the road dips and rises.

However, I'm thinking that there may be some mismatch between the Virnig plow I was sold and my L48. I spent a few hours today experimenting, and trying some of the things I've learned here. Here's what I found out:

1. To have the plow not dig in, I've got to have it curled back quite a bit. The curl is similar to when I'm scraping with my bucket - just a little too far forward and the edge will dig in badly. However, when adjusted so the curl is right the loader arms keep the blade from getting close enough to the road surface. I get loader arm drag marks but not good snow removal. I think the plow geometry might work with a real skid steer - those arms come more straight down, my loader arms stick out horizontally at the end. The shoes aren't even close to touching the gravel even with extra spacers.

2. Most plows I know of trip either the whole plow or the bottom half. This plow just trips the bottom about 4 inches, mostly the cutting edge. But it trips way too easily - just pushing regular snow will cause it to trip. Once it trips the cutting edge extends a couple of inches below it's rest position, so even if I have the plow running just right over the surface, a moderate snow load will trip the cutting edge, causing it to drop a couple of inches and dig into the road bed. Once that happens, I lose front traction and if the blade is angled at all the tractor takes a quick right or left turn and the whole operation grinds to a halt while I regroup.

3. When the cutting edge trips it frequently gets a rock in it which prevents it from snapping back, even once I release the pressure. Then I've got to dismount, get a big bar to pry the gap open a bit more, get the rock loose, pull the bar out, mount up and start again. Uuuggh!

4. If I get everything lined up just right and push a decent, but not huge, load of snow, the right-left angle cylinder doesn't hold the plow in position. If I'm pushing with the blade just a bit angled to the right, once a get a nice push going the cylinder will give and let the blade angle all the way to the right. Sometimes it just stays right until I release the load. Other times it dumps the load off to the right, and then jumps back near straight, only to repeat again in 10 or 20 feet or so. This seems to me to be a problem with design - maybe the cylinder isn't strong enough?

I'm going to call the dealer first thing in the morning and ask if they will swap out for a unit which works well with my L48. Although there is plenty of room for operator improvement, I think there is a real mismatch between my L48 and the plow. I also think the plow design may have flaws.

thanks for all the help everyone,
-robert