Bad time to drop a turbo!

[Gale Hawkins]

Duluth News Tribune | Duluth, Minnesota

After thinking about even large tractors I can not grasp something like the turbo on a ship like this or the 18,000 HP tug pulling it to a safe harbor.:thumbsup:

I take they have it running without the turbo just trying to stay out of the rocks.

29 foot seas and 45 MPH wind was just too much under limited power that would let them go 3-4 MPH.

 

[Willl]

Here's a messed up one compared to a new one.

((I don't do this work, but I'm standing next to the guy that does.))

 

[Skyco]

Wow! Is that FOD? Wonder if ships have air filters???? Every outboard I've owned didn't.

 

[jinman]

Here's a messed up one compared to a new one.

((I don't do this work, but I'm standing next to the guy that does.))

I think it's absolutely priceless to look at the old one and the new one both sitting there on $5 pallets. Heck, the new one even has a little rust on its axle shaft.

Note: this is the casual observation of someone who knows nothing about the context of these photos. I'm just curious.

 

[SandburRanch]

Do those have bearings or bushings?

 

[ArtMech]

Do those have bearings or bushings?

I think the following is important to know by most of the turbo charged engine tractor owners.
No they don't. The turbo chargers are not equipped neither with bearings, nor with the bushings. Suppose the turbo chargers reach 120,000 rpm/min, so I don't know any bearing, which could not vibrate at such conditions. But to minimize a friction it used so called the "wet bearing" - it's a film of oil created by the engine's pressure, which surrounding turbine's axle keeps it centered and well lubricated.

Never mind if You'll find some turbine's axle play while moving it by finger with the hose removed. That play will be immediately eliminated as soon as an engine will be started.
To check the condition of a turbo charger remove the hose between turbo charger and intercooler at intercooler's side. If You'll find some oil traces in both intercooler and hose, means You need make serious inspection and frequently check engine oil level. If You'll find pretty much oil in intercooler, means turbo charger is near to be out of order.
At normal conditions that part of air inlet must be dry of oil.

 

[Skyco]

Lots of higher performance turbochargers now have ball bearings....

 

[SPYDERLK]

Lots of higher performance turbochargers now have ball bearings....

I would think rolling element bearings would fly apart at turbo speeds -- even with ceramic balls to limit mass. Are you sure that isnt superchargers that use the ball bearings? The hydrodynamic plain bearing/~bushing seems the way to go for 100K turbo speeds.
larry

 

[Skyco]

Yep - turbochargers
ball bearing turbochargers - Google Search

 

[Gale Hawkins]

TurboByGarrett.com - Turbo Tech101

I found this and the 102 and 103 helpful info.

 

[ArtMech]

You're right guys. Probably it was Nissan corporation (correct me if I'm still wrong), which in about the mid '90ths has designed the turbocharger with the ball bearings first. But as I know from the history, it was an issue of vibration, durability and correct lubrication of these bearings, although the spec advantage was on the side of ball bearings. That's why the possible solution at that time was to use wet bearing (or floating sleeve, if it might be called a bearing). I had much dealing with them.

But I was too strict writing "I don't know any bearing, which could not vibrate at such conditions", because I didn't take into account last decade's technical development in this area.

The following link probably gives an answer to our discussion (I hope ):
APS Ball Bearing Turbocharger

I would stress on the statement from the part of an article of that link "Why Twin Ball Bearing?":
"In order to achieve crisp turbocharger response, a number of advances in turbocharger design have been utilized over the past decade. Primarily through the use of modern metals/ceramics in order to reduce the mass of the rotating assembly. However, significant gains have been made by reducing the friction of the rotating assembly - and this has meant a departure from traditional turbocharger designs."

What do You think the turbochargers of most tractor owners are like - sleeve or ball type?

I didn't know the ball bearings are actively implemented to the today's turbochargers. That's my fault :confused3:

 

[SPYDERLK]

The problem I see with ball bearings [other than huge G forces] is that they wear out. ... Unlike the hydrodynamic bearing that can last many lifetimes because there is no contact.
larry

 

[Redneck in training]

The problem I see with ball bearings [other than huge G forces] is that they wear out. ... Unlike the hydrodynamic bearing that can last many lifetimes because there is no contact.
larry

Large turbines, motors and compressors use "tilt pad bearings" like this one

TurboCare - Tilt Pad Bearing
or this one
John Crane - Orion - Bearings - Tilting Pad Journal Bearings

they might last years of continous operation because the shaft never touches the bearing.

 

[KWentling]

Wow. I've worked as a machinist in electric motor repair shops for the last 30 years and that is the first I've heard of the tilt pad bearings. Worked with a lot of conventional babbit bearings in motors up to 6500 HP. Looks like a great idea. Most bearing failure I've seen are misalignment (hot spots), loss of oil, or oil contamination.

Kim

 

[SPYDERLK]

Large turbines, motors and compressors use "tilt pad bearings" like this one

TurboCare - Tilt Pad Bearing
or this one
John Crane - Orion - Bearings - Tilting Pad Journal Bearings

they might last years of continous operation because the shaft never touches the bearing.

Continuous op they will outlast the assembler and his children.
larry

 

[mostly_gas]

I would think rolling element bearings would fly apart at turbo speeds -- even with ceramic balls to limit mass. Are you sure that isnt superchargers that use the ball bearings? The hydrodynamic plain bearing/~bushing seems the way to go for 100K turbo speeds.
larry

The machine shop I worked at had a vertical machining center with a spindle that capable of 18,000 RPM and bearings. It also had coolant (800 psi) through the spindle that was used on a regular basis. they average about 3000(mostly no operator) hours a year on the machine, usually above 12K spindle speed. Average tool weight was bout 25-30 pounds and is used to mill hardened tool steel.