Bad Power Trac Experience

[Central_PA_Chris]

My PowerTrac experience: Avoid them like the plague.

After much research and reading online, visiting tractor dealers and looking at similar products (versitrac) I decided to take a road trip to purchase a Power Trac 425. I timed the trip with some time off I had over the 4th of July, so I picked it up on the tail end of a work trip down that way with the intent of mowing 10 acres over the week of the 4th, my last chance to cut the field myself before the weeds and burdock went to seed.

I bought this machine based on a need for a versatile mower to tackle both brush/field mowing and to eventually cover my front end loader needs. I currently own a Bobcat 864 for heavier FEL needs while I’m building a house and taming new yard/brush/stumps.

One of my main concerns buying power trac was customer support, with no local dealers (I’m in central PA, so about 7 hours away from their HQ) I was a bit worried what would happen if I had any problems. The internet forums had quite a few positive stories regarding their support and they are easy units to work on, so I decided to risk it.

I called ahead to get a machine prepped and headed down. Test drove their demo 425 on the gravel pile with the bucket, it can move gravel. Hooked up a mower, huh, no PTO power. Tapping and jiggling ensued, nope, no PTO on the demo unit, I should have taken that as a sign and walked away right then. Ended up playing with a brush mower on a larger diesel unit.

Got my 425 with brush mower home, ran it for two hours cutting 4’-5’ overgrown field, which it handled pretty well. Tried it on the soon to be yard area which has some minor pits and ruts, it really didn’t like that not enough travel/flex/articulation or something to keep traction and smooth motion. It did take down a fair sized autumn olive that was in the field with little effort.

At 2.1 hours on the meter it suddenly started to sound louder and like the engine was reving. I shut it down and gave it a once over, air filter, oil, throttle cable, etc. nothing seemed amiss. I figured I might have bumped my hearing protection out of place and it just sounded louder. A friend dropped in and we chatted, so the machine had time to cool down. Fired her back up and kept mowing at 2.4 hours either noise changed again or I saw smoke. Dunno which happened first, anyways big billowing smoke surrounded the engine area. Shut her down quickly and jumped away from the machine. Let her cool a bit, when I decided it was safe to move in it was immediately apparent that engine oil had sprayed all over the engine compartment, dipstick zero. I walked away. Called powertrac the next day (Monday of 4th of July week), no answer. Ahhh, they mentioned not working or being around over the 4th of July week when I was in. Interesting that they didn’t update their phone message, lucky it had come up in conversation or I would have been plenty frustrated by the end of the week.

Anyways, the next Monday Terry called me back, basically said, that sucks I feel for you, but call Robins, we can’t help you. I quite nicely and politely told a story about a lawn mower that I had had which blew an engine when brand new, got repaired through that engine manufacturer and that it was never right again. It always blew smoke and was in and out of the shop till I put a free sign on it and wheeled it out to the curb. I stated clearly that I was not willing to accept a rebuilt engine on a brand new tractor. Terry said “Robbins is a good company to work with.” Holy crap, no reassurance that Powertrac will stand behind me if Robbins wants to rebuild a blown engine instead of putting a new one in? Just “Robbins is a good company to work with.”!!! No statement that this should never happen, we are sending you a new unit and will pick up the dead one? No offer to refund anything? No offer to take the lead on getting a freaking brand new tractor up and running again? No offer to ship me a new engine and take the local install bill and deal with the faulty engine themselves? No offer to put one in the back of a pickup and drive it ½ way to me if I would meet them ½ way? Nope, just good luck and let us know how it goes. Gee thanks.

I was pretty frustrated before that call, after that call I was still frustrated but now felt unsupported, disillusioned and plain scared that I made a bad purchasing decision but decided to take a crack at Robins repair network.

Called Robins, they actually had a repair shop at my local (just two miles away) hardware store. That was a bit of a relief as a local repair seems more likely to me to be quality, they know they would have to deal with it again if the repair is bad and are in the same community. They said they were backlogged and it would be three weeks till they got to it. I went forward with this, went in the next day with the towing valve diagram and signed it into the repair queue.

I called Terry to find out his recommendation on how to remove the mower deck and straighten the unit out for towing, he fixed me up with what I needed to get it into towing position. I mentioned it was going to be down for three more weeks minimum and that this was really quite a bit of inconvenience on a new tractor, going to have to rent something or hire someone to clear the field before the weeds go to seed. He suggested that I look into other Robins dealers which I didn’t want to do because local repair seemed the best chance at a quality repair and best local recourse if THAT goes awry. Then he offered to call Robins and have them try to get the repair shop to move it up in line. That struck me as a really bad idea when looking to get a quality repair. Pushing a repair guy to let you budge in line didn’t sound constructive to me, so I turned that offer down.

I was getting pretty upset at that point, over a month of down time in the making, no offers that were even vaguely constructive, no reassurance that they would stand behind me if I wasn’t satisfied with Robins. Absolutely no offer of anything that would even share or split the issue/inconvenience and get me up and running again. Zilch. I decided that Terry was great as repair and knows the machines, but maybe I ought to be talking to someone in customer service. I slept on the matter to give myself some cool down time, but slept like crap and decided that it was time to sever this relationship, I had zero faith left for powertrac and felt it was time to return this dead beast and move onto a real solution. I though about it before calling: was my only position that I want to return it? Or if they actually offered something constructive, handled me nicely would I give it another shot. I figured if handled well and offered something constructive (see any of the suggestions a few paragraphs above) I’d give it another shot.

So I called receptionist and asked for customer service, again figuring that maybe I had been talking to the man for repair information, but that someone else there was more oriented to customer service. Receptionist said she was connecting me to Kristi, which I thought odd, sales and customer service all wrapped in one? I told her this was not working, not acceptable and I wanted to return the unit. Well I certainly didn’t get any handling or offers to make things better, to make things right, just “No you can’t. We have a no returns policy. All sales final.” I’ll admit right about then I lost my temper and don’t know my exact wording. I do know I didn’t yell or curse. However, I remember laughing at her and saying that I didn’t believe that that was a firm policy and that any company, much less a small American one that relies on good reputation online and word of mouth recommendations would let a dissatisfied customer exit gracefully and walk away from what was turning into a bad experience. I also said if they didn’t take it back I was going to try to get satisfaction through my credit card company and would post my experience and opinion of their company online.

So she said she’d get back to me. She emailed me the next day with a written legal/credit card chargeback defense type letter . Still no offers to try and make it right, basically just screw you, we got your money, go away.

That was July 11th 2007, as I write this it’s ten days later, I have not entirely decided what to do next. It’s still in my local shops repair queue. I really do want to be out of any relationship with that company, but thus far my issues have really been with the company, not the machine, bad engines happen, so I might be happy with the machine in the long run, but the thought of dependence on them for attachments, hydraulic oil filters, support if it breaks again really tics me off. I think I’ve fallen back to my original position, I’m not willing to accept a rebuilt engine on a new tractor. I’ll wait a week or so till I see what the repair guys say, then decide if it’s time to get a lawyer.

I strongly advise anyone considering one of these things to looks elsewhere. Buy something with a local dealer and actual customer service.

Update: It’s now September 5rd 2007, just got word that it was the governor that died, causing some chaos that resulted in the rear mainseal blowing out and ejecting all the oil from the engine. No one can really explain how this caused the mainseal to blow out, but with no overheating signs, grooves, metal fatigue etc found by the repair place, they are replacing parts and putting her back together. Don’t really know what to make of that.

Sorry if this isn’t very well edited, just not enough time to do everything that should be done. I’ll update this with my experiences with the machine eventually and post this on my web site with the response letter from Power Trac, but for now this will have to do.

 

[Barryh]

My PowerTrac experience: Avoid them like the plague.

After much research and reading online, visiting tractor dealers and looking at similar products (versitrac) I decided to take a road trip to purchase a Power Trac 425. I timed the trip with some time off I had over the 4th of July, so I picked it up on the tail end of a work trip down that way with the intent of mowing 10 acres over the week of the 4th, my last chance to cut the field myself before the weeds and burdock went to seed.

I bought this machine based on a need for a versatile mower to tackle both brush/field mowing and to eventually cover my front end loader needs. I currently own a Bobcat 864 for heavier FEL needs while I知 building a house and taming new yard/brush/stumps.

One of my main concerns buying power trac was customer support, with no local dealers (I知 in central PA, so about 7 hours away from their HQ) I was a bit worried what would happen if I had any problems. The internet forums had quite a few positive stories regarding their support and they are easy units to work on, so I decided to risk it.

I called ahead to get a machine prepped and headed down. Test drove their demo 425 on the gravel pile with the bucket, it can move gravel. Hooked up a mower, huh, no PTO power. Tapping and jiggling ensued, nope, no PTO on the demo unit, I should have taken that as a sign and walked away right then. Ended up playing with a brush mower on a larger diesel unit.

Got my 425 with brush mower home, ran it for two hours cutting 4?5 overgrown field, which it handled pretty well. Tried it on the soon to be yard area which has some minor pits and ruts, it really didn稚 like that not enough travel/flex/articulation or something to keep traction and smooth motion. It did take down a fair sized autumn olive that was in the field with little effort.

At 2.1 hours on the meter it suddenly started to sound louder and like the engine was reving. I shut it down and gave it a once over, air filter, oil, throttle cable, etc. nothing seemed amiss. I figured I might have bumped my hearing protection out of place and it just sounded louder. A friend dropped in and we chatted, so the machine had time to cool down. Fired her back up and kept mowing at 2.4 hours either noise changed again or I saw smoke. Dunno which happened first, anyways big billowing smoke surrounded the engine area. Shut her down quickly and jumped away from the machine. Let her cool a bit, when I decided it was safe to move in it was immediately apparent that engine oil had sprayed all over the engine compartment, dipstick zero. I walked away. Called powertrac the next day (Monday of 4th of July week), no answer. Ahhh, they mentioned not working or being around over the 4th of July week when I was in. Interesting that they didn稚 update their phone message, lucky it had come up in conversation or I would have been plenty frustrated by the end of the week.

Anyways, the next Monday Terry called me back, basically said, that sucks I feel for you, but call Robins, we can稚 help you. I quite nicely and politely told a story about a lawn mower that I had had which blew an engine when brand new, got repaired through that engine manufacturer and that it was never right again. It always blew smoke and was in and out of the shop till I put a free sign on it and wheeled it out to the curb. I stated clearly that I was not willing to accept a rebuilt engine on a brand new tractor. Terry said è¿*obbins is a good company to work with. Holy crap, no reassurance that Powertrac will stand behind me if Robbins wants to rebuild a blown engine instead of putting a new one in? Just è¿*obbins is a good company to work with.?!! No statement that this should never happen, we are sending you a new unit and will pick up the dead one? No offer to refund anything? No offer to take the lead on getting a freaking brand new tractor up and running again? No offer to ship me a new engine and take the local install bill and deal with the faulty engine themselves? No offer to put one in the back of a pickup and drive it ï½½ way to me if I would meet them ï½½ way? Nope, just good luck and let us know how it goes. Gee thanks.

I was pretty frustrated before that call, after that call I was still frustrated but now felt unsupported, disillusioned and plain scared that I made a bad purchasing decision but decided to take a crack at Robins repair network.

Called Robins, they actually had a repair shop at my local (just two miles away) hardware store. That was a bit of a relief as a local repair seems more likely to me to be quality, they know they would have to deal with it again if the repair is bad and are in the same community. They said they were backlogged and it would be three weeks till they got to it. I went forward with this, went in the next day with the towing valve diagram and signed it into the repair queue.

I called Terry to find out his recommendation on how to remove the mower deck and straighten the unit out for towing, he fixed me up with what I needed to get it into towing position. I mentioned it was going to be down for three more weeks minimum and that this was really quite a bit of inconvenience on a new tractor, going to have to rent something or hire someone to clear the field before the weeds go to seed. He suggested that I look into other Robins dealers which I didn稚 want to do because local repair seemed the best chance at a quality repair and best local recourse if THAT goes awry. Then he offered to call Robins and have them try to get the repair shop to move it up in line. That struck me as a really bad idea when looking to get a quality repair. Pushing a repair guy to let you budge in line didn稚 sound constructive to me, so I turned that offer down.

I was getting pretty upset at that point, over a month of down time in the making, no offers that were even vaguely constructive, no reassurance that they would stand behind me if I wasn稚 satisfied with Robins. Absolutely no offer of anything that would even share or split the issue/inconvenience and get me up and running again. Zilch. I decided that Terry was great as repair and knows the machines, but maybe I ought to be talking to someone in customer service. I slept on the matter to give myself some cool down time, but slept like crap and decided that it was time to sever this relationship, I had zero faith left for powertrac and felt it was time to return this dead beast and move onto a real solution. I though about it before calling: was my only position that I want to return it? Or if they actually offered something constructive, handled me nicely would I give it another shot. I figured if handled well and offered something constructive (see any of the suggestions a few paragraphs above) I壇 give it another shot.

So I called receptionist and asked for customer service, again figuring that maybe I had been talking to the man for repair information, but that someone else there was more oriented to customer service. Receptionist said she was connecting me to Kristi, which I thought odd, sales and customer service all wrapped in one? I told her this was not working, not acceptable and I wanted to return the unit. Well I certainly didn稚 get any handling or offers to make things better, to make things right, just 哲o you can稚. We have a no returns policy. All sales final. I値l admit right about then I lost my temper and don稚 know my exact wording. I do know I didn稚 yell or curse. However, I remember laughing at her and saying that I didn稚 believe that that was a firm policy and that any company, much less a small American one that relies on good reputation online and word of mouth recommendations would let a dissatisfied customer exit gracefully and walk away from what was turning into a bad experience. I also said if they didn稚 take it back I was going to try to get satisfaction through my credit card company and would post my experience and opinion of their company online.

So she said she壇 get back to me. She emailed me the next day with a written legal/credit card chargeback defense type letter . Still no offers to try and make it right, basically just screw you, we got your money, go away.

That was July 11th 2007, as I write this it痴 ten days later, I have not entirely decided what to do next. It痴 still in my local shops repair queue. I really do want to be out of any relationship with that company, but thus far my issues have really been with the company, not the machine, bad engines happen, so I might be happy with the machine in the long run, but the thought of dependence on them for attachments, hydraulic oil filters, support if it breaks again really tics me off. I think I致e fallen back to my original position, I知 not willing to accept a rebuilt engine on a new tractor. I値l wait a week or so till I see what the repair guys say, then decide if it痴 time to get a lawyer.

I strongly advise anyone considering one of these things to looks elsewhere. Buy something with a local dealer and actual customer service.

Update: It痴 now September 5rd 2007, just got word that it was the governor that died, causing some chaos that resulted in the rear mainseal blowing out and ejecting all the oil from the engine. No one can really explain how this caused the mainseal to blow out, but with no overheating signs, grooves, metal fatigue etc found by the repair place, they are replacing parts and putting her back together. Don稚 really know what to make of that.

Sorry if this isn稚 very well edited, just not enough time to do everything that should be done. I値l update this with my experiences with the machine eventually and post this on my web site with the response letter from Power Trac, but for now this will have to do.

I feel your pain man, hang in there. Maybe Robin will get you squared away right. Hopfully you won't have any more issues with your PT.

Your right though, that's not real inspiring company support. Being a brand new machine, someone should have been jumping through hoops to make it right. Keep us posted..

 

[Bob999]

My PowerTrac experience: Avoid them like the plague.

First, I think the engine failure within only a few hours is really unfortunate and not one any customer should expect, Based on posts in this forum such a failure is not typical--you are the only person who has reported this. I hope that the engine repair is successful and the remainder of your experience with the tractor is better.

I think the lesson that should be taken from your experience is that a prospective purchaser should read the warranty carefully before purchase and not make the purchase if not satisfied with the product warranty terms. The PT warranty is quite clear about what is and is not covered and the responsibilities of the purchaser in the event of a problem. As you probably now know the PT warranty is less inclusive than the warranty offered on many consumer products. However, my reading of your account is that PT fully lived up to the printed warranty.

I don't know if you have ever had a tire problem with a new car--the experience is similar to what you experienced with the Robin branded engine in the PT. The warranty on tires in a new car is offered by the tire manufacturer and I have never heard of a car manufacturer taking a car back because of a tire problem.

 

[scarg]

Central PA Chris,

Welcome to the club! My 422 with 450 hours on it just blew up last week with about the same exact noise etc.... Not sure what i will put back in it for an engine but it will not be a Robin Subaru engine. I know of 2 other pt's in my immediate area. One with a 25 hp Kohler Command Pro which is still running strong after 700 hours and another with a 18 HP Robin Subaru which siezed up exactly the same as mine did after 500 hours.

The only good news about the PT's is that if you don't already own a welder you will soon be purchasing one to weld the frame back together when it breaks!!

Good luck,

Steve

 

[BobRip]

Central PA Chris,

Welcome to the club! My 422 with 450 hours on it just blew up last week with about the same exact noise etc.... Not sure what i will put back in it for an engine but it will not be a Robin Subaru engine. I know of 2 other pt's in my immediate area. One with a 25 hp Kohler Command Pro which is still running strong after 700 hours and another with a 18 HP Robin Subaru which siezed up exactly the same as mine did after 500 hours.

The only good news about the PT's is that if you don't already own a welder you will soon be purchasing one to weld the frame back together when it breaks!!

Good luck,

Steve

Can you show us a picture of the frame weld failure? Or describe it's location. I am at 600 hourse and have not seen such a failure. What should I look for. Maybe I missed some symptons. I do agree that having a welder is very useful, but I think that's true for owning any tractor. I have welded my neighbors Kubotoa FEL. With a tractor abuse is invited from the way a lot of us abuse them.

I wonder where Jack Robin (Robin Subaru's represenative) is with these failures happening. I agree that on the new engine failure, that a new engine is in order, not a repaired engine. At 600 hours, some concession would be good and probably appropriate. I had a friend who had an F150 axle bearing failure at about 40,000 miles, just out of warranty. I believe after some discussion they did the repair at half price. He never towed with it or loaded it heavily. Basically he drove it to work empty, and took the daughters to college.

On the other hand, until recently I always drove used vehicles and did the work myself. When I started buying new vehicles, it made me uneasy to have other's work on my vehicles. I still do most of the work myself, but sometimes let the dealer do stuff. With the PT, I kinda feel it's mine and my responsiblity to repair it from day one, and I kinda like that. So that matches the PT philosphy. But that's just me. I wish both of you good luck and happy resolutions with your problems.

Chris, have you contacted Robin Subaru directly. I would if the repair has issues. Jack Robin seems to stand behind the product. He gave me a new starter and ignition coils because of cold starting problems. I thought that was more than reasonable since keeping it in my garage also solved the problem.

 

[Barryh]

My PowerTrac experience: Avoid them like the plague.

After much research and reading online, visiting tractor dealers and looking at similar products (versitrac) I decided to take a road trip to purchase a Power Trac 425. I timed the trip with some time off I had over the 4th of July, so I picked it up on the tail end of a work trip down that way with the intent of mowing 10 acres over the week of the 4th, my last chance to cut the field myself before the weeds and burdock went to seed.

I bought this machine based on a need for a versatile mower to tackle both brush/field mowing and to eventually cover my front end loader needs. I currently own a Bobcat 864 for heavier FEL needs while I知 building a house and taming new yard/brush/stumps.

One of my main concerns buying power trac was customer support, with no local dealers (I知 in central PA, so about 7 hours away from their HQ) I was a bit worried what would happen if I had any problems. The internet forums had quite a few positive stories regarding their support and they are easy units to work on, so I decided to risk it.

I called ahead to get a machine prepped and headed down. Test drove their demo 425 on the gravel pile with the bucket, it can move gravel. Hooked up a mower, huh, no PTO power. Tapping and jiggling ensued, nope, no PTO on the demo unit, I should have taken that as a sign and walked away right then. Ended up playing with a brush mower on a larger diesel unit.

Got my 425 with brush mower home, ran it for two hours cutting 4?5 overgrown field, which it handled pretty well. Tried it on the soon to be yard area which has some minor pits and ruts, it really didn稚 like that not enough travel/flex/articulation or something to keep traction and smooth motion. It did take down a fair sized autumn olive that was in the field with little effort.

At 2.1 hours on the meter it suddenly started to sound louder and like the engine was reving. I shut it down and gave it a once over, air filter, oil, throttle cable, etc. nothing seemed amiss. I figured I might have bumped my hearing protection out of place and it just sounded louder. A friend dropped in and we chatted, so the machine had time to cool down. Fired her back up and kept mowing at 2.4 hours either noise changed again or I saw smoke. Dunno which happened first, anyways big billowing smoke surrounded the engine area. Shut her down quickly and jumped away from the machine. Let her cool a bit, when I decided it was safe to move in it was immediately apparent that engine oil had sprayed all over the engine compartment, dipstick zero. I walked away. Called powertrac the next day (Monday of 4th of July week), no answer. Ahhh, they mentioned not working or being around over the 4th of July week when I was in. Interesting that they didn稚 update their phone message, lucky it had come up in conversation or I would have been plenty frustrated by the end of the week.

Anyways, the next Monday Terry called me back, basically said, that sucks I feel for you, but call Robins, we can稚 help you. I quite nicely and politely told a story about a lawn mower that I had had which blew an engine when brand new, got repaired through that engine manufacturer and that it was never right again. It always blew smoke and was in and out of the shop till I put a free sign on it and wheeled it out to the curb. I stated clearly that I was not willing to accept a rebuilt engine on a brand new tractor. Terry said è¿*obbins is a good company to work with. Holy crap, no reassurance that Powertrac will stand behind me if Robbins wants to rebuild a blown engine instead of putting a new one in? Just è¿*obbins is a good company to work with.?!! No statement that this should never happen, we are sending you a new unit and will pick up the dead one? No offer to refund anything? No offer to take the lead on getting a freaking brand new tractor up and running again? No offer to ship me a new engine and take the local install bill and deal with the faulty engine themselves? No offer to put one in the back of a pickup and drive it ï½½ way to me if I would meet them ï½½ way? Nope, just good luck and let us know how it goes. Gee thanks.

I was pretty frustrated before that call, after that call I was still frustrated but now felt unsupported, disillusioned and plain scared that I made a bad purchasing decision but decided to take a crack at Robins repair network.

Called Robins, they actually had a repair shop at my local (just two miles away) hardware store. That was a bit of a relief as a local repair seems more likely to me to be quality, they know they would have to deal with it again if the repair is bad and are in the same community. They said they were backlogged and it would be three weeks till they got to it. I went forward with this, went in the next day with the towing valve diagram and signed it into the repair queue.

I called Terry to find out his recommendation on how to remove the mower deck and straighten the unit out for towing, he fixed me up with what I needed to get it into towing position. I mentioned it was going to be down for three more weeks minimum and that this was really quite a bit of inconvenience on a new tractor, going to have to rent something or hire someone to clear the field before the weeds go to seed. He suggested that I look into other Robins dealers which I didn稚 want to do because local repair seemed the best chance at a quality repair and best local recourse if THAT goes awry. Then he offered to call Robins and have them try to get the repair shop to move it up in line. That struck me as a really bad idea when looking to get a quality repair. Pushing a repair guy to let you budge in line didn稚 sound constructive to me, so I turned that offer down.

I was getting pretty upset at that point, over a month of down time in the making, no offers that were even vaguely constructive, no reassurance that they would stand behind me if I wasn稚 satisfied with Robins. Absolutely no offer of anything that would even share or split the issue/inconvenience and get me up and running again. Zilch. I decided that Terry was great as repair and knows the machines, but maybe I ought to be talking to someone in customer service. I slept on the matter to give myself some cool down time, but slept like crap and decided that it was time to sever this relationship, I had zero faith left for powertrac and felt it was time to return this dead beast and move onto a real solution. I though about it before calling: was my only position that I want to return it? Or if they actually offered something constructive, handled me nicely would I give it another shot. I figured if handled well and offered something constructive (see any of the suggestions a few paragraphs above) I壇 give it another shot.

So I called receptionist and asked for customer service, again figuring that maybe I had been talking to the man for repair information, but that someone else there was more oriented to customer service. Receptionist said she was connecting me to Kristi, which I thought odd, sales and customer service all wrapped in one? I told her this was not working, not acceptable and I wanted to return the unit. Well I certainly didn稚 get any handling or offers to make things better, to make things right, just 哲o you can稚. We have a no returns policy. All sales final. I値l admit right about then I lost my temper and don稚 know my exact wording. I do know I didn稚 yell or curse. However, I remember laughing at her and saying that I didn稚 believe that that was a firm policy and that any company, much less a small American one that relies on good reputation online and word of mouth recommendations would let a dissatisfied customer exit gracefully and walk away from what was turning into a bad experience. I also said if they didn稚 take it back I was going to try to get satisfaction through my credit card company and would post my experience and opinion of their company online.

So she said she壇 get back to me. She emailed me the next day with a written legal/credit card chargeback defense type letter . Still no offers to try and make it right, basically just screw you, we got your money, go away.

That was July 11th 2007, as I write this it痴 ten days later, I have not entirely decided what to do next. It痴 still in my local shops repair queue. I really do want to be out of any relationship with that company, but thus far my issues have really been with the company, not the machine, bad engines happen, so I might be happy with the machine in the long run, but the thought of dependence on them for attachments, hydraulic oil filters, support if it breaks again really tics me off. I think I致e fallen back to my original position, I知 not willing to accept a rebuilt engine on a new tractor. I値l wait a week or so till I see what the repair guys say, then decide if it痴 time to get a lawyer.

I strongly advise anyone considering one of these things to looks elsewhere. Buy something with a local dealer and actual customer service.

Update: It痴 now September 5rd 2007, just got word that it was the governor that died, causing some chaos that resulted in the rear mainseal blowing out and ejecting all the oil from the engine. No one can really explain how this caused the mainseal to blow out, but with no overheating signs, grooves, metal fatigue etc found by the repair place, they are replacing parts and putting her back together. Don稚 really know what to make of that.

Sorry if this isn稚 very well edited, just not enough time to do everything that should be done. I値l update this with my experiences with the machine eventually and post this on my web site with the response letter from Power Trac, but for now this will have to do.

Although I agree with Bob's statement whole heartedly, of the PT Philosophy. That in my opinion should pertain to a Pt that has been used for some time, not one with low hours and is pretty much brand new. I agree it should be Robin that takes care of you with a brand new engine, and I'm sure they will stand behind their product.

I would think PT should also be OVERLY helpful in resolving your engine problem. By following up and making sure you got what you paid for. It's just good business. If it were my company, I would bend over backwards to help make it right. As long as, there were no abuse involved. Say you changed the oil and forgot to put any back.

As a company I would want you to refer other people to me. As PT chose to put this engine into their products they should also be standing behind their product as a whole by following up and making sure you are a happy customer.

Seems to me it would be a lot less costly in the long run to take a brand new machine back if you weren’t happy. Rather than receive bad press and have people hear about it and decide to look else where for their tractor needs.

When Ford puts a Mitsubishi engine in one of there Rangers and it blows up. I would expect Ford to make it right. Even though there is no prescribed dealer support on our machines, word of mouth is the heart of any business and all the more reason to keep people happy. Good luck with Robin, keep us posted.

 

[TRUKFXR]

BarryH,
I agree with you completely. I work in the automotive repair field. If we install a new or rebuilt engine in a customer's car and it fails, it is my job and responsibility to see that it is repaired or replaced to the customer's satisfaction. I wouldn't dream of having the customer deal directly with the manufacturer. It may take a little arm twisting on our part, but I guarantee the manufacturer would do what was needed to correct the problem. Stuff happens. This doesn't have to be that big of a deal. It is an opportunity to show the customer and others how well you stand behind your product. The cost is actually very little. Pay the towing. Get it back in the shop and get it done.

 

[Barryh]

BarryH,
I agree with you completely. I work in the automotive repair field. If we install a new or rebuilt engine in a customer's car and it fails, it is my job and responsibility to see that it is repaired or replaced to the customer's satisfaction. I wouldn't dream of having the customer deal directly with the manufacturer. It may take a little arm twisting on our part, but I guarantee the manufacturer would do what was needed to correct the problem. Stuff happens. This doesn't have to be that big of a deal. It is an opportunity to show the customer and others how well you stand behind your product. The cost is actually very little. Pay the towing. Get it back in the shop and get it done.

Well said, and your right of course.

My intention here is not to bad mouth Power Trac. They may just be waiting for Robin to correct the situation for all I know this may be there normal recourse. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. I really love my little machine and it's easy for those of us myself included, that have had no major problems to sit here and say this and say that and dismiss it lightly.

Try putting yourself in the other guy's shoes, and it becomes apparent at his frustration. As stated it can cause lack of sleep. I've run a successful high turn over business myself going on 11 years now.

When the occasional new customer calls to setup an interview, they always seem surprised to see I still have around 85% of my original clients from the first week I started. I have not had to advertise for a few years now due to the fact I give 150 % to my customers, and word of mouth gets around fast.

I also have a contract they sign and have strict policies in place to protect myself from the occasional service abuser. There is a fine line to walk when determining who is who.

Power Trac may be waiting to see if this gets resolved through their normal channels. So hopefully Chris will be taken care of. If that isn't the case..... then shame on them.

 

[BTI]

First off a disclaimer:I am in no way defending what is becoming "common practice" in the marketplace.

BUT the sad fact is more and more companies are going about doing business this way.
What happens when you buy a mower from TSC and something happens, you deal with an outside source for repairs.
If you buy a Semi truck and it has a CAT motor in it, you don't go back to the truck sales to get the motor worked on you have to go to the motor manufactures approved service shop.
Kohler and Kawasaki are both the same way, the only difference is most shops can get set up with them pretty easily.
The more that companies worry about the bottom line the more you see this.
I believe it stems from others doing repairs and having them botched, in the process not helping their reputation or profits.
I realize your frustration.
If it were my company, I would send you another motor with a call tag to return the original back to me then I would deal with the company.
Then the shop of your choice could install it and send us the bill.

It's hard for smaller American companies to keep up with the others being sourced outside the US.
Same way it's hard for smaller dealers to play in the same ballfield as mega-dealers.

BTI

 

[Barryh]

First off a disclaimer:I am in no way defending what is becoming "common practice" in the marketplace.

BUT the sad fact is more and more companies are going about doing business this way.
What happens when you buy a mower from TSC and something happens, you deal with an outside source for repairs.
If you buy a Semi truck and it has a CAT motor in it, you don't go back to the truck sales to get the motor worked on you have to go to the motor manufactures approved service shop.
Kohler and Kawasaki are both the same way, the only difference is most shops can get set up with them pretty easily.
The more that companies worry about the bottom line the more you see this.
I believe it stems from others doing repairs and having them botched, in the process not helping their reputation or profits.
I realize your frustration.
If it were my company, I would send you another motor with a call tag to return the original back to me then I would deal with the company.
Then the shop of your choice could install it and send us the bill.

It's hard for smaller American companies to keep up with the others being sourced outside the US.
Same way it's hard for smaller dealers to play in the same ballfield as mega-dealers.

BTI

Sad indeed...

 

[shvl73]

If it were my company, I would send you another motor with a call tag to return the original back to me then I would deal with the company.
Then the shop of your choice could install it and send us the bill.
BTI

That certainly would be a better way to handle it. Its too bad that I can't think of a company that would handle an issue that way today, though I hope there are some. I do believe they cost themselves more in lost sales and damaged reputation than it would be to jump on the problem and correct it.

 

[Mobil1]

Chris,
I agree with all you have said,customer service and satisfaction is not a big priority with them.The Power Trac people are always nice when they tell you "tough" it's your problem now.I bought 1430 with trailer pkg. in 2003,had trouble with treadle cable pulling out of hydroback after 3 weeks.When Terry asked me to bring to power trac so that HIS mechanic could see ,install and adjust correctly,I did!!! When I was there I noticed that on 2004 models they went to hydraulic drive and eliminated the set-up I have and am having so much trouble with!!!Power Trac mechanic fixed my machine and they acted like I was doing somthing wrong or did not know what I was doing.....WELL HIS REPAIR "DID NOT LAST ONE HOUR",and i was broke down again after 16 hours of driving to and from tazwell.They refused to upgrade my machine for free or admit it was a bad design and want $6,000.00 to do so.Please keep in mind I am not the homeowner that runs machine on occasion,I do Landscape Construction.I have been forced to try and create my own solution as I have a lot off money tied up in it.On my trailer Pkg they sold me a trailer that could carry 7,000 lbs...but actual weight is 8,600 lbs and will do nothing for me.I contacted them AFTER getting stopped and weighted by police...upgrade to 10,000 lb axles,wheels,springs,etc..$1,800.00....POWER TRAC WILL-NOT PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS ..VERY CHEAP AND LEAVES CUSTOMERS HOLDING THE BAG!!!FIND A BETTER COMPANEY TO DEAL WITH.THEY OFFER LIP SERVICE AND WORDS ONLY ...........

 

[SpringHollow]

On the plus side, I have found Terry to be really helpful over the phone, helping me with repairs and modifications without getting paid. Unfortunately, I deal with many instrument vendors where their response to even a simple question is "place a service call and we will come and work on it". They usually charge $600 - 1000 just to arrive.

Ken

 

[AltavistaLawn]

There are two very unfortunate facts:

Theres nothing else on the market to do what a PT1850 will do; or any of the other units for that price range.

The PTs are not commercial quality. My 1850 has some serious design flaws.

 

[J_J]

Something you guys should think about, is the next big malfunction might be your own machine, and what do you think of the treatment that some members of the PT crowd have received. It seems like that some of your are saying , tough, it is your machine now, so take care of the situation. You all have a good idea what PT, should have done. They have been less than helpful about my older 1445, and yes, Terry has been helpful to us all. He should be, he is there trouble shooter and the answer man. It appears that PT is a closed nit community, not answering to anybody, even their customers. Do you realize that we , the owners, are doing the major advertising for them. Then we should also be able to call their attention to unfair and negative business practices. They are one of a very few companies that that sell and essentially forget about you until you need some parts. Does anybody know the other people up there except Kristy Kevin and Terry. That $50.00 mis order is a joke, and I will not order anything from them using that logic. You guys could make a difference if you stated your concern and disappointments about certain things to the owners that be. Don't even get me started about the lack of documentation for the PT. The Kubota manuals that I have , make PT's Xerox copies look like kindergarten kids scratches.

You all know that Chris got a bum deal, and with enough feedback from the PT users group, they just might pay a little attention to what will happen if they keep on getting negative press. The same thing goes to Robin engines.

 

[IrTxRx]

All,

I have been saving for a 1430 for almost 4 years. Money has been in the bank since early summer. Stories like Altavista, Mobil1, Weedpatch and now Chris have kept me from buying. I don' mind a product having a few kinks when it is as unique as the PT for my uses, but I REALLY don't like the idea that I can give PT $25K of my money and if my tractor doesn't work from day 1 then I have $600 worth of scrap metal.



why can't PT take Chris's back, give him a new tractor, PT gets the new engine from Robin and all they are out is some secretarial labor for paperwork with Robin. I agree about the ford ranger and foreign engine scenario...seems the same thing to me.

Do lemon laws apply to tractors?

 

[ponytug]

I am sorry to learn that Chris had a meltdown so early in his PT ownership, and I totally understand his frustration in dealing with finger pointing.

A CEO, and a former commanding officer on a nuclear attack submarine, put it succinctly; "If you are the XO, and are asleep while someone else is piloting the boat, and it runs aground, it is your fault."

Being caught in finger pointing is not pleasant, nor is the thought that your brand new baby is flawed. That said, nothing is perfect, and mean time between failures is a statistical distribution. Some units won't fail for 5,000 hours (my old Saab comes to mind), while others will experience major failures early in life.

I can definitely empathize with Chris.
I had a wheel motor blow a seal at 5.2 hours, spraying the engine compartment, muffler, oil cooler, everything with oil, and dumping a couple of quarts of oil on the ground.
It was nearly a Sedgewick, and it made me appreciate how fast you could have a major fire, and how big the fire extinguisher needs to be.

After I found the problem, the Power-trac response was to send out a replacement wheel motor. I changed the motors out, and sent it back. My shipping cost to be credited to future purchases from PT.

Was Terry very helpful about it? Definitely.
Did PT send an instruction sheet on how to do it? No.
Did I have to ask PT to send hose plugs? Yes.
Overall, do I think it was a great response? No.
Was it what they had legally agreed to do? Yes.
Did I know that it was all that they would do before I bought the tractor? Yes.
Was it one of my primary reservations with buying a PT? Yes.

In the end, before purchasing a PT, I decided that
A) I couldn't afford the Swiss superior engineered version, or its service contract.
B) I could probably fix most of what would break on the tractor.
C) my view was that the factory delivered tractor is really just a starting framework for building the right tractor for me.

Reading TBN, you can tell that for various people the tractors work great, as is. While for others, the tractors need substantial modifications to do routine things, and other users make major changes and improvements. The creativity of the group here never ceases to impress me. Not to mention the willingness to pick up a welding torch and have at it.

The state of the PT reminds me of the auto industry in the 1960s (or the tractor industry). Cars were largely assembled, rather than designed, and certainly not engineered on anything but the simplest dimensions. As a result, owners could make enormously better cars at home, with simple tools and modifications. I remember our family having two cars in our driveway that differed by a factor of 2.5 in HP/volume, and a factor of 3.5 in mpg. The comfort and handling were not even remotely comparable. The Deutz tractor that a neighbor bought was 15% more fuel efficient, which may not sound like much, but in marginal farming, it was huge.

In concrete terms, we own three vehicles today; one is unmodified from the factory with 80k miles, one, @110k, has had some minor electrical modifications put in by me (autodimming headlights and a cell phone amplifier), and one, @380k miles, has had large sections of the electrical system modified and replaced, and the fuel system and drivetrain altered, becuase it needed it. For the latter, I knew enough to design better than the original engineers, while for the first one, I don't know enough to improve on the original for our use.

For me, it is the same with PT. I didn't think it was perfect when I bought it, but it was a starting point, and it had capabilities that other tractors didn't have, and couldn't be user engineered in. e.g. 30 degree cross slope motion.

As an aside, I help start companies for a living, and I did do a quick evaluation of Power-Trac while I was there.

Are there a number of significant items that they could do better? Yes.
Could I advise PT on how to be more successful, more competitive? Yes.
Did they show any signs that they wanted to hear the advice? No.

And that, as they say, is the end of story.
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

Sure, I'd love to see Ford/Chrysler/GM/US company X be better, more effective, more profitable, and be better places to work, but they have to want to change before they can improve. On a personal level, I wouldn't wish a poorly run, managed company on anyone, whether a customer, employee or owner.

Bonus points to identifying Eddie D. Reynolds.

All the best,

Peter

 

[IrTxRx]

Just curious how the "Bad experience" is going. Worse, better or same

 

[Z-Michigan]

I keep reading the PT forums because I think it would be an extremely useful smaller machine for my place. But I keep reading these horror stories. Not that many, but relative to the small number of PT users out there, significant. I keep waiting for a big company (ideally Kubota or JD) to make a knockoff of the PT that works reliably, has dealers and a real warranty. Whenever that day comes, I'll probably be first in line to get one.

 

[SnowRidge]

I keep reading the PT forums because I think it would be an extremely useful smaller machine for my place. But I keep reading these horror stories. Not that many, but relative to the small number of PT users out there, significant. I keep waiting for a big company (ideally Kubota or JD) to make a knockoff of the PT that works reliably, has dealers and a real warranty. Whenever that day comes, I'll probably be first in line to get one.

Depending upon what you need the machine for, search TBN for Ventrac and Steiner. They are somewhat similar.