Backhoe Backhoe Pin Wear

[BXTotal]

I recently bought a CK20 with the factory backhoe. The tractor has about 500 hours on it, so I assume the backhoe has less than 500 hours.

Before I bought the tractor, I examined many of the pins for the FEL and backhoe. They all had very little play and appeared to be well greased. The previous owner warned me that there might be one or two fitting that were plugged.

The first time I used the backhoe I noticed that the pins that allow the backhoe boom to pivot from side to side had a bunch of play. The lower pivot point is not too bad but the upper pivot is totally out of whack, like half an inch or more. This seemed odd to me because the other pins were in good shape and the tractor only has 500 hours.

This weekend, I extracted the lower pin and it was totally dry- no grease. More surprising, there was no sign of any radial grease hole running from the bearing surface of the pin to the center grease hole. The center hole was full of fresh looking grease.

The upper pin would not budge. It looks like it welded itself to the flange. The pin itself is distorted so, even if I could rotate the pin in the flange (which I can not) I doubt I would be able to extract it.

Two questions:

1. Is it possible there there was a manufacturing defect and my pins were never drilled with holes to carry grease from the fitting to the bearing surface ? Has anyone ever heard of this before ?

2. How in the world am I going to remove the old upper pin that has welded itself to the flange ?

 

[Mousefield]

I see this is your first post so welcome. :thumbsup: I have a woods backhoe on my CK35 and I grease all my pins a fair amount. Sounds like the previous owner of your machine didn't grease everything. I keep a few grease zerks so that if they plug up I just change them; it does happen from time to time. My first thought would be to get a manual for the backhoe and/or talk to a dealer about the problem. This would help you find out the location of all grease points. As far as getting out the pin I am sure it can be done. If you have a heavy equipment shop near you they may be able to help you as well. Lots of different types of equipment have pins and I'm sure they occasionally have to take out seized pins.

 

[IslandTractor]

I'm not sure what you mean by a "radial grease hole". On the pins in question on my tractor the grease is distributed by squeezing around the pin after exiting the middle pin grease hole. It is odd that you see fresh grease in that hole but totally dry pin with excessive wear. Maybe I am not understanding. Does the pin have a zerk but no exit point for grease at all?

It is also odd that the pivot pins would weld themselves as there really is not enough repetitive friction in pivoting to get the pins hot enough to weld IMO. cycling back and forth between digging and dumping spoils could certainly wear a pin down if it was not greased but I'm having trouble imagining enough heat generation to get metal to a welding point.

 

[BXTotal]

IslandTractor & Mousefield, thanks for the thoughts on this problem.

Does the pin have a zerk but no exit point for grease at all?

IslandTractor, this is exactly what I am suggesting. The zerk is intact but there does not appear to be any passage drilled to carry the grease from the zerk to the actual working surface of the pin. Either there was never a passage or the passage has somehow welded shut. Right now there is definitely no sign of a hole to carry the grease out from the zerk.

As for welding the pin to the flange, I am using the term weld loosely. Really it looks more like the pin rusted, galled, and mushroomed enough that it is locked to the flange. I was not able to budge it with some casual hammering or a pipe wrench (twist).

 

[wallace]

We love jobs like this!!!
Its going to take heat, and a big hammer.
I bought a big slide hammer off the Mac Tool truck just for these occasions.
You can remove the grease fitting and apply heat to it and you may get lucky enough that the old hard as a rock grease will start to run out.
You can also apply heat and try a impact hammer.
Sorry I don't have the magic answer.

 

[rustyrigs]

The brass bushings(are whatever material is used) should have the grease gaps for grease to travel around the pin, 500 hundred hours run time and equipment setting in the feild with little to no maintenance could be the culpret, I just torched out a set of swing bushings on a 555E back hoe that belongs to a graveyard, A couple six foot holes a week or more but no one @ the company including operators had a clue were the zerks are and had never tryed to locate them, put some heat and sweat into a big hammer!! The damage is already done and you have committed to it now!! I also have cut grooves in pins to let grease travel through!!

 

[BXTotal]

Thanks for the replies.

Not sure I was sufficiently explicit about the situation with the grease fitting. For both the lower and upper pin, the zerk is on the pin. It is centered on the top side of the pin.

When I pulled the lower pin (the one that is not seized), there was no sign of a hole to allow the grease to travel from the zerk to the exterior of the pin where it is needed. What the previous owner though was a plugged zerk looks like a manufacturing defect to me. You could apply as much grease with as much pressure as you want to that zerk fitting but none of it is ever going to reach the bearing surface of the pin because there is no passageway.

Regarding the upper (seized) pin. I have a bad track record with a hammer and blow torch. Can I really bang on that thing hard enough to get it out without breaking the flange ? The last time I had this problem, it was a seized trunion on an old car. Broke a bunch of wrenches, almost flipped the car with a 12 ft breaker bar, nearly set the garage on fire with the torch. Never did get the pivot out of the trunion.

 

[IslandTractor]

I'm an optomist. Try some PBblaster daily for a week or so along with a healthy whack with a mallet and use the BH hydraulics to move it back and forth. Then mild heat and see what happens. You might get lucky. If that doesn't work send it out to the gorillas.

Rick knows what these pins are supposed to do regarding grease so maybe he can answer your question about the missing grease passage. I'm having trouble envisioning the grease path. I would add though that you don't need to cut any grooves in the pin, so long as the grease exits the middle of the pin somewhere the grease will easily distribute itself with movement of the BH.

 

[Coyote machine]

I'd try using an industrial strength bolt loosener- (fluid) in conjunction with a heat gun AND an impact driver (air chisel) to free the pin. First apply the bolt loosener and then the heat followed by an air chisel set to medium impact to start and higher air as needed. Apply the heat to where the pin is held into the flange, NOT to the pin itself. Your task is to expand the opening and drive the pin through the expanded opening. Hit the center of the pin with the impact hammer and try to keep from mushrooming the edges any further than already is the case.
The less pressure on the pin from the BH the better too. Do what you can to relieve as much pressure on the pin by positioning the backhoe in a place where the pin is as free as it can be.
One other thought is to try to drill out the existing pin- especially if all else fails. There has to be a type of bit- possibly the newer cobalt bits that could at least core out the pin enough to be able to punch it the rest of the way.
Try Grainger Supply or some other industrial supply co. to see what exists for such purposes.
good luck and wear appropriate eye hand protection :thumbsup:

 

[VictorW]

As Wallace and Island mentioned, heat and PBblaster or any other good penetrating oil should work to loosen it up. Working on cars and an old D5 Cat bulldozer, I would oil the part good and let it soak 30 minutes or so. Apply the heat to the flange as Coyoti mentioned, I used an acetelyne torch. It will boil the oil and loosen it a little. One trick I've used is while it's hot, hit it again with the oil. The oil starts to cool the parts and is sucked in further. Try to pound it out or better an impact gun as mentioned. I've had to do this several times to stubborn parts but they finally let lose.

 

[wallace]

One other thought for ya.....If you can get the lower pin out stick a rod up through it and put a bottle jack on the rod and jack it up..even if you have to leave pressure on it over night with PB blaster soaking it.
I have found better stuff than PB Blaster.
It is called FLUID FILM.
By the way what model backhoe are you working on?

 

[mx5guy]

I have a Kioti backhoe and from description of this problem I seem to have same upper zerk is real hard to grease, have to manipulate arm side to side, apply down pressure to get it greased, could the zerk be a problem?

 

[JoelD]

Rick gave an excellent idea with the pin and bottle jack.

From experience with lots of stuck stuff, nothing seems to work as well as a strong sledge and a bunch of swinging and swearing and swinging and panting and swinging and some more swearing and then a little more swearing for good measure.

I've wailed on some brake rotors and drums and hammered the weeee out of my pickle fork, but in the end, most things will come loose.

A picture of the stuck pin would be helpful.

I've heard of portable hydraulic type presses for dozer track pins and the like, one of those would be helpful in a situation like this. I wonder if you could rig something up with a bottle jack and thick steel???

Joel

 

[IslandTractor]

From experience with lots of stuck stuff, nothing seems to work as well as a strong sledge and a bunch of swinging and swearing and swinging and panting and swinging and some more swearing and then a little more swearing for good measure.

Been there done that. One caveat, if possible protect the end of the pin that contains the zerk. I mashed one of my BH bucket pins with a sledge trying to get it in or ?out and mushroomed the end just enough that the grease nipple would no longer fit into the zerk recess. I just used a die grinder to widen it but it would have been better to use a wooden block to protect that vulnerable spot while I was whammin and bammin.

 

[BXTotal]

Thanks for all the great ideas.

I had the same thought about the bottle jack. I will give this a try. I am pretty nervous about whaling on the pin with a hammer. The actuating cylinder are so close. Sooner or later I would take one out.

The top of the pin is exposed enough to get a pipe wrench on it. What do folks think about trying to twist it out ? The risk here is that the pipe wrench will deform the protruding part of the pin. On the plus side, not likely to damage the flange.

I also wondered about using a short hydraulic ram resting on the lower flange driving up against the upper pin. This would allow me to apply more force than the weight of the tractor would allow at the risk of bending a flange.

For those that have asked, the backhoe is a KB2365. The manual shows the pin as PN BH09-0113. Two versions are shown. One is 38mm dia & 96mm long. At some point, the length was changed to 108mm long.

Any thoughts on why the lower pin has no exit hole for grease ?

 

[IslandTractor]

Rick is very familiar with the KB2365.

I owned one and never had trouble with any of the zerks not taking grease. I have to assume there is some problem with the pins you have but Rick would be better to give you a definitive answer.

 

[JoelD]

Don't forget eye protection when hammering on steel with steel.

I see no problem with the pipe wrench and a twist would probably do wonders. You'll be replacing the pin so who cares about hurting it.

I replace my pins at intervals as a maintenance item, I've got new pins in the basement.

If you twist it out you can always find something else to beat the snot out of with a hammer.

Good luck.

Pictures please if you can.

Joel

 

[wade simpson]

I repair submarines in my day job. If it is possible I would try to drill the center of the pin out with the biggest bit I could use(start small). I have seen pins frozen (welded) by rust expansion almost fall out when the center was drilled out. If that doesn't get the pin moving at least you can start dremelling the pin away from the inside until there is almost nothing left. Hammers are great tools but they can really mess up a job like this, if used at the wrong time. Heat is any mechanix best friend but it can seriously weaken steel if it gets too hot.

Good luck

 

[JoelD]

I repair submarines in my day job. If it is possible I would try to drill the center of the pin out with the biggest bit I could use(start small). I have seen pins frozen (welded) by rust expansion almost fall out when the center was drilled out. If that doesn't get the pin moving at least you can start dremelling the pin away from the inside until there is almost nothing left. Hammers are great tools but they can really mess up a job like this, if used at the wrong time. Heat is any mechanix best friend but it can seriously weaken steel if it gets too hot.

Good luck

Excellent points, particularly on the heat, easy to forget the number it can do on metal.

Joel

 

[Reg]

SOMETIMES you just can't get a good enough swing at it, but you have good access from the head end.
If this is the case weld a 5/8 fine thread bolt on it head to head, then thread the slide hammer onto that bolt and SUCK it out.

My slide hammer bits are all 5/8 fine, I think most are, but use whatever thread standard your slide hammer uses