I'm looking at buying a smaller used tractor/ backhoe on ebay. I have had some good luck buying items from local sellers, by actually going to personally check the item out before I bid on it. What are some generic tips to pre purchace check on pins, and bushings and other common wear points to concentrate on? I have not actually picked out any one type of machine yet. I have been eyeing ebay for a decent machine close by. I would only buy a machine if I had a chance to hear it run, and move it around some. I would be looking at moderately priced 20 to 40 horse units.
Backhoe inspection
- Thread starter Ifixcars
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EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Before you start it, feel the engine and be sure it's cold. A dificult to start engine might have been started before you got there to make sure it runs.
Look for black smoke in the exhaust, especially when revving the engine. Check the oil to be sure it's black. If it's clear or brand new, that might be hiding something. Be sure to check it again before you leave after running it awhile. Check the water and hydraulic oil too.
Check all the gears in both directions. Don't listen to any excuse you might be given. If it's not right, it will get worse and that's expensive.
Hydraulic cylinders leak all the time and are not too dificult to fix. Run it in high RPM's and check for leacks around the seals. Run the loader through it's movements and see if it's tight. Most are.
Put the outriggers down and see if they will lift the tractor. If it doesn't, then you might have hydralic pump problems. If the seals are leaking bad, that could be it to.
Try to lift the tractor in the air with the front bucket and the outriggers down. This will also tell you how much hydraulic preasure you have from the pump. It should lift the tractor easy.
Now run the hoestick through it's range of movements. Increase the accelerator and leave it there. If you can't dig, be sure to more it quickly to show you the worm bushings. If they are worn, you will hear them banging around. The bucket will probably be the worse, but it's also the most commmon.
With the accelerator still running high, get off the tractor and take a look underneath. This is when you'll see the leaks. When it's warm, under high RPM's and after you've used the hydraulics. Some leaks are easy and simple to fix, others are not. Hoses are simple and easy. Cylinders are more work, but after you've done one, you can do the rest. Pumps and valves are very bad and will only get worse. Look to be sure you know where the leaks are coming from!!
Leave the outriggers down, and put the hoe stick in the air, straigt out. Lower the front loader bucket all the way to get the front tires off the ground. Turn off the tractor. Watch the front bucket, the hoe stick and the outriggers to see if they stay in position. If they move, you have problems.
Check the oil and fluids again. Look underneath again for puddles.
Check the paint. Is there new paint? Is it covering up something? Are there any new parts? Why are they there?
Look at the tires. Are there any tears, rips or chunks missing? Ths usualy means construstion work and lots of abuse.
If you are not comfortable with anything on it, walk away. Ther is always another deal out there, and the longer you wait, the more money you will save. If you buy a money pit, you won't be saving anything and could easily spend more on a used one than a new one.
Good luck,
Eddie
Look for black smoke in the exhaust, especially when revving the engine. Check the oil to be sure it's black. If it's clear or brand new, that might be hiding something. Be sure to check it again before you leave after running it awhile. Check the water and hydraulic oil too.
Check all the gears in both directions. Don't listen to any excuse you might be given. If it's not right, it will get worse and that's expensive.
Hydraulic cylinders leak all the time and are not too dificult to fix. Run it in high RPM's and check for leacks around the seals. Run the loader through it's movements and see if it's tight. Most are.
Put the outriggers down and see if they will lift the tractor. If it doesn't, then you might have hydralic pump problems. If the seals are leaking bad, that could be it to.
Try to lift the tractor in the air with the front bucket and the outriggers down. This will also tell you how much hydraulic preasure you have from the pump. It should lift the tractor easy.
Now run the hoestick through it's range of movements. Increase the accelerator and leave it there. If you can't dig, be sure to more it quickly to show you the worm bushings. If they are worn, you will hear them banging around. The bucket will probably be the worse, but it's also the most commmon.
With the accelerator still running high, get off the tractor and take a look underneath. This is when you'll see the leaks. When it's warm, under high RPM's and after you've used the hydraulics. Some leaks are easy and simple to fix, others are not. Hoses are simple and easy. Cylinders are more work, but after you've done one, you can do the rest. Pumps and valves are very bad and will only get worse. Look to be sure you know where the leaks are coming from!!
Leave the outriggers down, and put the hoe stick in the air, straigt out. Lower the front loader bucket all the way to get the front tires off the ground. Turn off the tractor. Watch the front bucket, the hoe stick and the outriggers to see if they stay in position. If they move, you have problems.
Check the oil and fluids again. Look underneath again for puddles.
Check the paint. Is there new paint? Is it covering up something? Are there any new parts? Why are they there?
Look at the tires. Are there any tears, rips or chunks missing? Ths usualy means construstion work and lots of abuse.
If you are not comfortable with anything on it, walk away. Ther is always another deal out there, and the longer you wait, the more money you will save. If you buy a money pit, you won't be saving anything and could easily spend more on a used one than a new one.
Good luck,
Eddie
gordon21
Veteran Member
This may sound insulting, but ask the seller for proof of ownership and copies of the last 3 service bills. If he doesn't have them, run. Tractors don't have titles and he may not own it legally. If he says he did all the service himself, then ask for the receipts where he bought all the filters and fluids each time and look at the dates between purchases. No proof of ownership=no purchase by you. Especially on an e-bay purchase.
No record of regular service means that you need to check all of Eddies suggestions extra close.
Check with dealers of new equipment. Every day people buy something too small and then want to trade it back in with less than 200 hours on it. Deals can be found on used equipment from dealers.
No record of regular service means that you need to check all of Eddies suggestions extra close.
Check with dealers of new equipment. Every day people buy something too small and then want to trade it back in with less than 200 hours on it. Deals can be found on used equipment from dealers.
I am looking for a smaller unit, like a b21 kubota or possibly the L39. Or a John deere of the same size, but they seem to be more expensive. I wanted to bid on a b21 that was local to me, but when I asked to see the unit before I placed a bid, the seller became evasive so I said goodbye. I am looking for one with about 1000 to 1500 hours, so that the price is down a little but the machine is hopefully not used up. I'm not in a rush, which I think is the way to get the best value.
Dallas_Lilly
Gold Member
If you find one that you are really interested in I would not hesitate to pull an oil sample
cabover4us
Silver Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2007
- Messages
- 171
- Location
- Back in Salem, New York
- Tractor
- 1987 john deere 855 sold and bought a YT235 Yanmar, love this tractor
thanks edie, that was some good advice, wish i read it before i bought my 855 replaced four hoses so far and now the left swing cylinder on my #7 backhoe, spraying out oil, removed and dealer said cylinder barrel no good at all, replacement is $570, hydro repair shop will make me a new one for $180 so thats being made as i type, called ameria quip, the maker of this hoe, and representitive said i can purchase one from them for $300 per cylinder, thats at least a little more tollerable. now that you think about it the oil was clean as new when they delivered it.
you where saying that replacing the seals arent very hard to do? can do this at home? or to a repair shop?
greg
3
you where saying that replacing the seals arent very hard to do? can do this at home? or to a repair shop?
greg
3
When you check the hoe also look closely at the structure. Hoe's crack. All hoes will crack with use, all of them. That's why the owners manual and service manuals all state to inspect the structure, mounts and tractor for signs of fatigue, cracks and damage every 500-600 hours. If the hoe was used with a breaker it will probably be starting to show damage at 1200 hours or less. Basic homeowner use is light use and will take 3-4000 hours to show cracks.
Inpsect each and every grease zerk. Focus on the ones that are hard to get to as they will be the ones missed and typically are greasing an expensive part!
In doing the leak down checks, fill the hoe bucket and the FEL bucket and raise so they are straight out. There should be zero to 1" drift in 15 min. on a "tight" hoe. More means internal or external leaks.
On cylinder rebuilding - for 4" ID cylinders and smaller a homeowner can do it. You need a powerful impact for the larger ones. DIY rebuild is like 30-100 bucks where the pro version will be 150-500 bucks to do the same thing.
A bench vice, maybe a special spanner wrench or pin wrench, sockets (up to 1-7/8" of big cylinders), an impact wrench and a cheap expanding piston ring compressor. All told probably under 100 bucks of tools (excluding the impact wrench / air compressor!).
jb
Inpsect each and every grease zerk. Focus on the ones that are hard to get to as they will be the ones missed and typically are greasing an expensive part!
In doing the leak down checks, fill the hoe bucket and the FEL bucket and raise so they are straight out. There should be zero to 1" drift in 15 min. on a "tight" hoe. More means internal or external leaks.
On cylinder rebuilding - for 4" ID cylinders and smaller a homeowner can do it. You need a powerful impact for the larger ones. DIY rebuild is like 30-100 bucks where the pro version will be 150-500 bucks to do the same thing.
A bench vice, maybe a special spanner wrench or pin wrench, sockets (up to 1-7/8" of big cylinders), an impact wrench and a cheap expanding piston ring compressor. All told probably under 100 bucks of tools (excluding the impact wrench / air compressor!).
jb
Wayne County Hose
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2007
- Messages
- 2,325
- Location
- Wayne County Pa.
- Tractor
- Massey Ferguson model 85, Allis-Chalmers WD-45
john_bud said:
Wow, I need to raise my prices, considerably. For a simple rebuild, fill with oil, and pressure test, I don't think I ever charged more than a hundred.
I think Eddie should go into the equipment inspection business.
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
I forgot about this thread and was suprised at ready my own advice. I was on a roll that day!!!!!! LOL
I think John is a little high on his home owner repair prices. If I don't have to replace a piston, the seals are a usually under $40. Sometimes they are half that on my full sized 555E backhoe. Of course, those prices reflect the fact that I'm now buying individual seals from a cylinder rebuild guy. I paid allot more for the parts from the dealers.
I would say that 90% of the time, the cylinder is leaking because of worn seals. Take it apart, buy the seals you actually need and put it back together. The dealer likes to sell kits that cover allot of different cylinders. They sell that one kit for a set price which makes it easier for them, but you pay for all those seals that you don't need. I've rarely used a quarter of everything that comes in the kits that I've bought.
The nut that holds on the piston can be a bear to get off. Allot of the times they are held in place the Locktite. If it's the red stuff, good luck. The blue stuff is easier to get off and what I use on all my repairs during re-assembly.
I have a 3/4 impact wrench and sockets that go up to two inches. I have two kits and have had to buy a few individual sockets for those odd sized nuts. In one case, I couldn't figure out how to get the socket onto a nut as it wouldn't fit into the opening. I talked to a mechanic at New Holland and he said that I had to grind down the thickness of the socket to get in into the opening. I hated doing that since it was a $40 socket!!!! But it worked.
Most cylinders need a special spanner type tool that has two pins in it and adjusts to the size of the cylinder to get them apart. I bought mine from Case for $80 with a lifetime gurantee on the pins. I've broken those pins and Case replaced them for me, but I don't know if I'll get another set for free or not. The guy at the counter made a note of giving me those pins and acted like it was a one time thing. I'll see when I break another set of pins.
The pins break because sometimes I put a 2 inch pipe over my 3/4 inch breaker bar to get them apart. I always do this before taking the cylinder off of the tractor as it's the hardest part of the rebuild. Especially if the threads have red Locktite on them!!!!!!!!! YIKES.
Eddie
I think John is a little high on his home owner repair prices. If I don't have to replace a piston, the seals are a usually under $40. Sometimes they are half that on my full sized 555E backhoe. Of course, those prices reflect the fact that I'm now buying individual seals from a cylinder rebuild guy. I paid allot more for the parts from the dealers.
I would say that 90% of the time, the cylinder is leaking because of worn seals. Take it apart, buy the seals you actually need and put it back together. The dealer likes to sell kits that cover allot of different cylinders. They sell that one kit for a set price which makes it easier for them, but you pay for all those seals that you don't need. I've rarely used a quarter of everything that comes in the kits that I've bought.
The nut that holds on the piston can be a bear to get off. Allot of the times they are held in place the Locktite. If it's the red stuff, good luck. The blue stuff is easier to get off and what I use on all my repairs during re-assembly.
I have a 3/4 impact wrench and sockets that go up to two inches. I have two kits and have had to buy a few individual sockets for those odd sized nuts. In one case, I couldn't figure out how to get the socket onto a nut as it wouldn't fit into the opening. I talked to a mechanic at New Holland and he said that I had to grind down the thickness of the socket to get in into the opening. I hated doing that since it was a $40 socket!!!! But it worked.
Most cylinders need a special spanner type tool that has two pins in it and adjusts to the size of the cylinder to get them apart. I bought mine from Case for $80 with a lifetime gurantee on the pins. I've broken those pins and Case replaced them for me, but I don't know if I'll get another set for free or not. The guy at the counter made a note of giving me those pins and acted like it was a one time thing. I'll see when I break another set of pins.
The pins break because sometimes I put a 2 inch pipe over my 3/4 inch breaker bar to get them apart. I always do this before taking the cylinder off of the tractor as it's the hardest part of the rebuild. Especially if the threads have red Locktite on them!!!!!!!!! YIKES.
Eddie
