What I'm getting to here, like in my first post of this thread, is that an add-on backhoe attachment, even the highest rated woods bh-90x, can questionably be considered a very, very expensive low powered tool. That is when compared to a Kubota L39, a John Deere 110tlb etc.
backhoe for utility tractors
- Thread starter chuck172
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Elite Member
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- Sep 26, 2008
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- 2009 Kubota BX25
And of course, there's ditches to be dug!
That one was dug for a friend at the cottage who wanted to bury his overhead power lines. Now I am his BFF! We all help each other out at the cottage, so no doubt at sometime in the future, he will be happy to come over and help me with some electrical work. He is an electrician. And a very good one. So, backhoes are even good for community relations!
City Farmer
Platinum Member
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- Jan 3, 2013
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- Chesterfield, Mi
- Tractor
- Ford 3000, 4400 & 4500TLB Case 830 Case 350 dozer
I had the Woods 7500 on a compact. It worked great for what I needed at the time, small 8-10" pine stumps, crawl space footing repair and some trenching. Now that I have a Ford 4400, I'd NEVER go back to an add on BH again. The 4400 will work circles around it. I'd rent a machine for a weekend, try it out and see how it goes. It might work for you but I think you'll be disappointed. A couple months ago I put new lines on the backhoe. I ordered everything from surplus center except the (6) 3/4" lines, I had them made at a local shop, I don't remember exactly what it cost but I'd say it was somewhere around $700. You'll need some help, the (6) 3/4" hoses are horrible to replace but it can be done.
LD1
Epic Contributor
A trick to replacing some of the difficult hoses....
Get a JIC union and connect old hose to new and pull it through
Get a JIC union and connect old hose to new and pull it through
LD1
Epic Contributor
I don't mind...I'll help if I can. We have sent had to do much to dad's 4500...it's been pretty solid
City Farmer
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2013
- Messages
- 528
- Location
- Chesterfield, Mi
- Tractor
- Ford 3000, 4400 & 4500TLB Case 830 Case 350 dozer
The problem isn't pulling the lines through. It's working under the valve body and trying to get the wrenches in the tight spots.
To the OP: It's better to just take all the lines off. I'd do all the orings on the valve while there too. Get colored zip ties, they'll make life easier when your putting everything back together. 1/2" pex tubing is the perfect OD for the bushings in the handles, they'll press right in with a vice. I think I reamed or drilled the ID to size.
LD1
Epic Contributor
Either a set of hydraulic line wrenches....
Or a set of cheap harbor freight wrenches on hand that can be modified as needed....
Both are handy for working on hydraulics. I have modified several wrenches for my 5500 just to be able to fit and get a throw
LD1
Epic Contributor
I guess it all depends on just what all needs done with the 4500.
When dad bought his back 5 or 6 years ago.....the engine was recently rebuilt. And the Trans and rear end are nearly bullet proof as long as you keep oil in them. The most common issues are hydraulic hoses....and pins and bushings. Having access to a lathe (and now having one in the shop), one can save a fortune on pins and bushings as we did.
The only pins that are still sloppy on his are the two bucket pins. And by design....they arent greasable. But them being a little sloppy makes it easy swapping different bucket sizes.
I also made a set of 1-1/2" x 2" bushings so my buckets for my 5500 that has 2" pins, can be used on his 4500 with 1-1/2" pins
LD1
Epic Contributor
It dont require a large lathe to turn 2" pins that are ~10-12" long? If your southbend cannot handle that, it must be a tiny benchtop lathe or collet lathe missing all the chucks????
I cannot remember now, but I used either 4140 or 4340 pre-hard. You can harden 4140 and 4340 harder.......but it was ~40Rc. So I left it alone.
Do some searching and reading. All kinds of info out there as to what is good pin/bushing steel for backhoes. Everyone has their opinion on what is best. Not sure there is a single right answer. Lots of people recommend 1144 stress proof, some suggest hydraulic cylinder rod material, or you can go all out and get o1 or some other type of harden-able steel, and get back to OEM spec ~59-60 Rc for the pins and bushings. But I dont have a heat treat oven, or a way to grind a final pass if the heat treat slightly alters dimensions. But two things hold true....avoid mild steel and avoid bronze/brass for the bushings. Too soft and they will egg-shape in no time.
LD1
Epic Contributor
Yes, its machinable pretty easily with carbide.
It isnt until you get over 55 RC that carbide starts to struggle and you need to switch to CBN or something harder.
What info I could find on that lathe indicates its a 10" lathe (5" swing) and center distance could have been as small as 16" or as large as 34".
Why do you think that is too small to turn some 1-1/2 and 2" pins and bushings....ranging from ~1" long for some of the bushings up to ~12" long for some of the pins?
Sure you might not be able to take big passes, or finish the ID of the bushings with a drill and reamer. But drill as big as the lathe can handle and use a boring bar...
Carbide is pretty tough tooling. But flood cooling makes things alot better. If you dont have that, I'd get some cutting oil to help lengthen tool life and leave a cleaner cut when cutting some of the harder pin/bushing materials.
mykleh
Silver Member
4140 is general mold base building material in my field. you don't have to have carbide to cut it but its nice.. you can cut it all day long with highspeed steel tool bits in a lathe if that's all you have.. is more speed and feed if your using HSS.. your looking for sliver to light purple chips not deep purple or glowing..
LD1
Epic Contributor
I was talking about 4140 pre-hard.
HSS will struggle with it. And the tool will wear out alot faster, giving an inconsistent part diameter.
As to using HSS in general.....I dont understand your "more speed and feed" comment?
More feed.....maybe. But that has more to do with tool design, shape, chipbreaker, cut depth etc than material used. More speed.....absolutely not. Carbide is what likes speed. High speed steel should be renamed low speed steel. Cause modern tooling, cobalt, carbide CBN ceramic, cerments, diamonds, etc all run much faster than HSS
mykleh
Silver Member
sorry poor choice of words.. I meant using HSS while cutting 4140 is more about the proper use of speeds & feeds NOT more speed and feed. Sorry if I confused the issue.
LD1
Epic Contributor
Same can be said with any tooling choice.....but yes, HSS is more picky. Gotta know what you are doing. ITs not as forgiving or have as wide of a range of speed/feed that carbide has. HSS is still my go-to choice for interrupted cuts on the lathe. Like cleaning up welds where I have had to weld up a shaft and re-turn to size. HSS does have good "toughness".
And yes, HSS will turn 4140 just fine in its soft state. But the pre-hardened / pre-heat treated stuff that comes in at Rc40-42, that I used for my pins and bushings.....use carbide. I chose the pre-hard stuff....because I have no good way to harden afterwords. And the pre-hard stuff was about as hard and tough as I could get my hands on.....that can still be turned pretty easily with carbide.
Bronco82
Gold Member
This thread is killing me right now. Even though BLB had a great break down on page three, I'm still undecided. Are there any other tools out there that could be attached to the 3 point hitch that are capable of digging or ripping up roots and or rocks? That's what I think my primary use for the backhoe will be. Buying a dedicated backhoe isn't an option for the extra maintenance and storage, although, renting the mini ex for the couple small odd jobs that may come up is.
LD1
Epic Contributor
A subsoiler or 3ph ripper shank.
