Backdragging - How to not bend your FEL cylinder rods?

[pmmully]

LOL, thanks to all the folks that help me out regarding my new L48 TLB toy. I now consider how extensive cylinder extension can damage your stuff to be elementary regarding impacts, side-loads, and other damaging moves. Check, got it.

But let's talk about backdragging. A member pointed out a Messicks video on backdragging that talks about how your cylinders can be damaged. Minimum bucket angle, heel, etc., makes perfect sense on how it could happen, and what not to do. Great video.

What about float on backdragging? It seems to me, that using float would certainly help in all backdragging aspects? Even if you have some blade angle, the float would take that pressure off? I found it odd that Messicks video did not touch on float, but I found others that did. It seems that if I use a minimal bucket angle, and engage float, I would be pretty darn safe. Am I missing something?

 

[Rock Crawler]

I do TONS of backdragging with a little B2650. I angle the digging edge down around 20 degrees and I do lift the front tires off the ground. As I am pulling the spoils back I tap the level towards my right thigh to take angle off the bucket as I go, this keeps you "losing" material that you dragging. It's a bit of a art, you learn to tap that angle out to flat as you go. At time I will go over the edge of the fill pile, tilt the bucket sharp to about 45 degrees to start the spoils pile and quickly reduce angle as I back the bucket to the solid surface I am dragging to. Then I go back to my tapping out the angle as I go. I've done over 600 hours in 3 years like this and never hurt anything. But I do not back drag fast, and I am always watching the spoil pile I am dragging and tap out that angle to adjust and lose material at the rate I want.

You would have to experiment with my technique and see what I am talking about. But always go slow in low range and you can feel if your getting caught on a large boulder or something that is pulling o the bucket.

The following is a typical day for my baby tractor. It moves dirt and rock for a living and it drags, packs and smooths it every time. We get sometimes as much as 15 or 20 dump loads a day. Some days nothing... But it can do this work easily and quickly and suffer no damage.

 

[Fladogman]

The float does a poor job at back dragging in my opinion. The way I understand it is once you pass the halfway point of your cylinder lengths start reducing the amount of force you apply incrementally. If you want to use the float fill the bucket up with dirt for weight. You always need downward force to back drag efficiently whether from tractor weight or bucket weight.
In a nutshell don't apply to much pressure fully extended. If a lot of pressure is needed think about back dragging with the back of the bucket with the bucket flat. Then you can pick the front tires up off the ground if needed

 

[pmmully]

@rock crawler, that is the same technique I used to use with my skidsteer, always worked well. I think the key is common sense on the angle, you nailed it, slow is better.

@fladogman, that all sounds good. There is a video out there, I forget which one, that shows controlling the bucket angle in float, and you can see the loader lift over the underlying hard ground. Seemed to make sense, especially if you do not know what is underneath.

I value yall's practical experience greatly. Thanks. A "boat buck" = $1000, wonder how much an average "Tractor Buck" is?

 

[beowulf]

Backdragging, as I understand it, can be useful in some situations, e.g., when you need to move something and you cannot get on the other side of it, or smoothing out some soft dirt. But, based on personal experience I think it should only be done at about an angle of 15-20 degrees. I say this because the only two times I have popped a hydraulic hose was when I foolishly ("it will be okay just this one time") backdrug at a severe angle. You may get by with it once or several times, but at some point you will pop a hose. This I know.

 

[Bearsixty7]

Back dragging at a sharp angle with the curl cylinders extended is really only a concern if you could hit something solid, like a stump or maybe a concrete edge or an expansion joint. If you are in loose material then it shouldn't be an issue.

I have often done back dragging using the float mode and only varied the bucket angle to get more or less material distributed as needed yet it follows the ground contour better for leveling. I find this works much better than lifting the front tires off the ground while back dragging. In fact I try not to lift the front tires off so that I can still steer while dragging.

 

[k0ua]

Been back-dragging for decades without damage. You need to use common sense. Mostly in float mode, and shallow angles. Like RockCrawler said, learn how to dynamically feather the edge. It is just like spreading butter. Back-dragging is not dangerous, and will not damage anything if you use common sense. If you don't use commons sense, well then feel free to wad things up.

 

[PILOON]

I back drag all the time.
With tooth bar I tear out roots.
Back drag often to spread crushed stone by pulling towards me.

My CUT is @1800 hrs and so far never even ruptured a hose or damaged anything in hydraulics circuitry.
The only damage was when a chunk of granite scored a tilt cylinder rod badly enough that I had to get it rebuilt.

However I always ease into whatever chore or situation and never slam.

Actually spreading a truck load of crushed stone I probably back drag as much as push while spreading the material.

 

[4570Man]

Back dragging with the bucket at 45 degrees or so is fine. When the bucket is at 45 degrees or less there’s a lot less leverage against the cylinders and hooking something sold is almost impossible because the bucket just bounces over. Rolling the bucket to 90 degrees or more is almost guaranteed to bend something. You might get by doing it a few times especially in loose material but sooner or later it will bend something.

 

[pmmully]

Awesome stuff!!!!!