B7510 VS the JD4110

DanR67 · Mar 10, 2005

(
Are you swiveling the wheels 90º to slide the mower deck in and out? Also, I intend on using a floor jack to raise the wheels up for extra clearance.... )

flenn -

The front anti-scalp wheels turn 360 degrees - but the back, center (rear height adjustment) wheels do not turn sideways at all. So removing / installing the MMM is more of a "swing" (arc) that a "slide" (linear) - don't know if that makes sense....

The biggest "challenge" of re-/un-installing the MMM is getting the left, front anti-scalp roller "post" past the right front wheel as you remove the MMM from under the tractor. (right-side because the discharge chute is on the right)

My "system" ( /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif ) gives me a few extra - precious - inches in which to clear the post. Before I developed this method - I did remove / install the MMM a few times with all 4 wheels on the ground - it was a VERY tight squeeze - and I have a 54" deck!

Your idea of the floor jack sounds OK - but you have to keep it forward enough to allow the MMM to get past the right front wheel - but you'll see how much clearance you have when you crawl under to disconnect the lift bars / mid-PTO.

Re: R4 tires / lawn

As long as the ground is fairly dry - the R4's don't seem to hurt my lawn much at all - as long as you follow these two simple rules:

1) NEVER mow in 4WD - won't hurt CUT , but WILL chew lawn!
2) Plan ahead / make *gentle* turns

- Now by "gentle" I don't mean 1/2 mile turning radius - just "take it easy" - I am actually AMAZED how *nimble* my B7610 is! The power steering makes it almost effortless to drive - my old Craftsman riding mower was a workout in comparison! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Also - the HST makes a 3-point turn VERY quick once you get the hang of it - no fussing with a shift lever etc.

Hope that helps -

Dan

jkm · Mar 30, 2005

I am still trying to figure out the MMM trick. I will take the mower off again...until I can get the spline lined up. It started raining on me after about 2hrs of wrestling the 348lb deck. So far it is winning. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

B7500 · Mar 30, 2005

Go with the Kubota...

(As he clenches his fist and brings the arms in a circular motion towards the midsection. Knowing well that the look is a primeval, wrestler sort of being. Still, confident the advice given is genuine and of value).

You wont be sorry.
-Terry

Hypernix · Mar 31, 2005

OK I'm way too late on this one but just wanted to clarify one little thing /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
( 7510 has 21hp 4110 20hp. almost the same pto hp....both are hst. )

The 4110 HST actually has 21HP!!! If you look at the specs in the manual this is what it says. And also the engine is exactly the same engine used on the 2210 which develops 23HP! So go figure /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Hypernix /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Haneyrm · Jul 1, 2005

I also noticed that the 4110 has the same engine as the 2210. I wonder where the extra 3 HP comes from. All of my literature as well as the specs on the web list the 4110 as 20 HP. It looks as if the 4110 is rated at 20 HP at 2650 RPM where as the 2210 is rated at 23 HP at 3000 RPM. Sounds to me like the 4110 is actually a 23 HP tractor.

Mike

elad · Jul 1, 2005

The 4110 jd has throttlebody fuel devlivery system. Same engine with direct injection makes 23 HP. TB makes 20 HP.

rico304 · Jul 1, 2005

I too am looking at the Kubota Vs JD. My quoted prices have helped me with my choice. (From Maine)
JD 4110 $15,700
Bota 7510 $13,300 Not sure about JD, but the Bota dealer said that price includes Filled rear tires, block heater, and one hook welded on the bucket. I didn't ask for those and have no idea if JD does those, but two Bota dealers said they do that on new purchases(that was when I only asked for a quote on the tractor). Two Bota dealers said they do that along with purchase. About $1000 more to upgrade to the 7610. JD won't work with me on the price, and that is a pretty big difference. I must say, I have never driven a bota, but I do like the set up on the JD. For that price difference and Kubota quality, I can't say no to Bota.
I am sure you will love your 7510!! Post pics! I'll let you know when I take the big step!

Smitty /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

orangebluegreen · Jul 2, 2005

I am also going through the JD/Kubota comparison. I have rented and borrowed L Series Kubota in the past and have been satisfied, no experience with JD. The JD to me is far more comfortable in seating position and hydro pedal layout.

JD 4115 24HP 20HP-PTO with 73CI (Cubic Inches).
Kubota 2630 26HP 19.5HP-PTO 68.5 CI

Kubota B7610 24HP 18HP-PTO 68.5CI
Kubota B7510 21HP 16HP-PTO 61.1CI
JD 4110 20HP 17HP-PTO 61CI

JD’s 24HP engine has a larger CID than Kubota’s 24-26HP models and has higher PTO-HP than either Kubota. I am not sure if it is more efficient hydro/valving or the CID. I would guess the larger CID JD allows more torque and Kubota is injecting more fuel into a smaller engine to produce the HP numbers. I don’t have torque specs for Kubota so not sure how they compare to JD, but I figure more CID produces more torque. I also see the 24HP 4115 has a 72” MMM vs. Kubota 24HP 7610 only having 60” available. I assume the 7610 could power a 72” MMM considering it is an option for a RFM on the 7610, but perhaps Kubota could not fit a 72”MMM in the shorter wheelbase 7610 (59.1) vs. 4115’s (64.6)?

Also notice the 7510DTN (narrow) 21HP and B2410 24HP both have position control and equally higher rated hydraulics compared to the 7510/7610 with quarter-inching. I will assume this means the quarter inching valve is the limiting factor on 7510/7610 hydraulics and not the pumps or HP. Makes me wonder if the position control valve can be fitted to a 7510.

The 7510 is priced much better than the others (only outrageous vs. obscene). My main concern, does a 7510 have enough power to cut tall wet grass at “fast as possible without being thrown” speeds? Would prefer a rear discharge MMM due to side chute catching on my ample pasture fencing, none other than Kioti offers this from my observations. That leaves one with a mulching kit option and then brings up the power question.....is 17PTO-HP 7510 enough to power a mulching deck through tall wet Bahia and Bermuda grasses?

My main complaint about all of the choices is no easy way to slow down for bumps then resume the same speed as I am currently able to do with an old manual trans Craftsman. Just push in the cutch to slow a bit then let it back out and on your way while the mower never slows. This is also a good way for the mower to catch up if it should bog. The CUT’s I’ve been looking at have a crude cruise control plus the Kubota hydro has a clutch. One can set cruise and hit the clutch if bumps are encountered, but it slows/stops the mower deck, not truly a live independent PTO. If one uses the Hydro pedal only you can back off that, but then how to resume a speed known to be right for cut quality without going too fast? I notice the 2630 attempts to address this with marked numbers on the cruise, and JD’s attempt is electronic cruise, but only on the 4210 and larger, both probably too big for my property.

I want a Kioti loader (higher lift) I like to use a loader in place of a step-ladder and rear discharge MMM and Kubota known reliability and light weight and smaller size, and I want JD’s 72” cut with 24HP, and I want it at half the cost.

A 72” deck on a smaller sized 7610 would be ideal because the more a deck sticks out the side, the easier it is to trim close to my fences and trees.

Hey Kubota....how about a power-shuttle trans with TRUE live-PTO on a 75-7610 frame with a 72” MMM, or at least a way to slow down and resume the same speed without slowing the mower and still maintaining the speed benefits of a hydro or shuttle.

Anyone with tricks on how to overcome these issues? Anyone with experience on a 7510 Turf Special..... do they bog in tall wet grass? I like to go as fast as possible without dying basically. I have not looked yet at CubCadet, but it appears the mower deck may be electric PTO like I have now and might address part of the problem.

Haneyrm · Jul 2, 2005

Went out this morning to look at a 7510 Turf Special. The price I was quoted was $17,400. Keep in mind that this same dealer quoted me $18,000 for a 7800, 402 FEL, 60" RFM, and a 65" BB. He told me flat out that $17,400 was as low as he could go on the Turf Special. That has got to be close to or above retail for that package. Oh well, I am waiting until Tuesday to speak with the sales manager on a better deal on the 7610. They are about $1100 higher than what I am finding elsewhere. I really want to buy from them because they are local but am struggling trying to figure out their pricing structure.

Mike

seapea · Jul 2, 2005

( Makes me wonder if the position control valve can be fitted to a 7510.)

I asked the dealer this same question (actually for a B7610, which is more similar to the B2410 than a B7510). His answer was "no", but I don't consider him enough of an expert in this area to know for sure.

flusher · Jul 2, 2005

FYI- the Kubota dealer in Redding, CA delivered my B7510HST with LA302 FEL last Wednesday. Cost: $12600 + about $750 sales tax.

Visited TSC in Red Bluff CA and picked up a 48" KK brush hog for $695 and a 48" box blade for $395. I probably could have done better on price if I wanted to drive a 120 miles to Sacramento.

Unloaded the hog from the back of my F150 by chaining it to the FEL. Really glad I had the dealer weld three chain hooks on the bucket. With my 200 lb in the seat and the 425-lb hog cantilevered from the FEL, the balance was a little light and I managed to bounce the rear tires when I lowered the hog to the garage floor. No harm done, just a fun ride. I definitely will make one of those concrete counterweights for the 3-pt hitch real soon.

btolle · Jul 2, 2005

( I am also going through the JD/Kubota comparison.------------<SNIPPED>---------------
The 7510 is priced much better than the others (only outrageous vs. obscene). My main concern, does a 7510 have enough power to cut tall wet grass at “fast as possible without being thrown” speeds? Would prefer a rear discharge MMM due to side chute catching on my ample pasture fencing, none other than Kioti offers this from my observations. That leaves one with a mulching kit option and then brings up the power question.....is 17PTO-HP 7510 enough to power a mulching deck through tall wet Bahia and Bermuda grasses?

My main complaint about all of the choices is no easy way to slow down for bumps then resume the same speed as I am currently able to do with an old manual trans Craftsman. Just push in the cutch to slow a bit then let it back out and on your way while the mower never slows. This is also a good way for the mower to catch up if it should bog. The CUT’s I’ve been looking at have a crude cruise control plus the Kubota hydro has a clutch. One can set cruise and hit the clutch if bumps are encountered, but it slows/stops the mower deck, not truly a live independent PTO. If one uses the Hydro pedal only you can back off that, but then how to resume a speed known to be right for cut quality without going too fast? I notice the 2630 attempts to address this with marked numbers on the cruise, and JD’s attempt is electronic cruise, but only on the 4210 and larger, both probably too big for my property.

I want a Kioti loader (higher lift) I like to use a loader in place of a step-ladder and rear discharge MMM and Kubota known reliability and light weight and smaller size, and I want JD’s 72” cut with 24HP, and I want it at half the cost.

------------<SNIPPED>---------------
)

Sounds to me like you need to buy the Kioti since the rear discharge and loader issues are major. And maybe the Kioti is cheaper.

Personally I thought the price for my B7510 was quite reasonable, but then I prefer quality to cheap.

Bill Tolle

orangebluegreen · Jul 3, 2005

When I first started looking at small tractors I was initially attracted to Kioti because they “looked right” length to width to height etc. I’m an old racer and in years past the wisdom was “if a car looked right it probably was”. I too first believed the hype they were less money. I suppose some might take that at face value and believe it, but the truth is Kioti cost more. I suppose if one buys a Kubota from an overpriced dealer they may think Kubota cost more, but I have priced both machines to enough extent I can say the Kioti is more. So my problem with Kioti is my local dealer no longer sells them. Most of the Kioti dealers appear small operations without deep enough pockets to stay in business. Kioti may have been around a long time under the Daedong name, but I know no one personally who has years of experience with them. So in my opinion if we the public are being asked to be the guinea pigs for a product, we should be rewarded for that “risk” with a lower price than a known quality (Kubota). In my opinion Kioti has not attained enough brand recognition to be arrogant on price. Another issue is Kioti weight is about 4-500 lbs more than 75-7610, not desired for mowing.

My main reason for posting is to find out if the Kubota 7510 has enough power for tall wet grass, and preferably at higher speeds. I may even decide new ZTR and used bigger series tractor. I see better deals on larger tractors than the CUT’s and I have a ¼ mile rutted limerock road that needs maintained which I did not intent to do with a CUT. Since I live in an area where the dealers are such low volume a trial run is pretty difficult, I am conptemplating is the 16-1900 dollars more for a 7610 necessary? If I can conclude 20-21HP is enough, that might open the door to CK20, but Kioti has no 24HP small frame option like the 7610/2410. They are all a compromise depending on need for sure. I prefer the 2410, but so far all I’ve seen is high prices on them. I see the same used tractors for sale for months and if you inquire about them they disappear from the market days later. I’m not talking about scam tractors that don’t really exist either. So where are the good used tractors going? I know they must be out there somewhere but it appears dealers don’t want the public to get hold of them, I suspect dealers snap up fairly priced ones made available by the public. I saw the same thing played out with Honda vehicles. They had used vehicles priced so high, a new one was the only choice. Nice way to justify new prices by making sure the used market is over inflated. I am currently seeing BX2200’s (which are plentiful) being advertised for the same or more than a new 2230. It makes no sense other than making over priced new tractors appear a value. My experience with internet boards has shown them to be full of shills where “everything is wonderful” with little real performance issues discussed and almost every dealer I have asked about floating decks vs. suspended etc....have NO IDEA what I’m talking about. Does Kubota not have a salesman education program? I find it incredible a guy spends his entire day dealing with these vehicles yet knows little about them. The salesman probably makes very little on these small tractors, so that could be the problem, but I highly doubt they know any more about half million dollar equipment either. I have read here people have good results talking directly to Kubota about questions, so I intend to do this in the future rather than ask a dealer.

BTW....this is not directed at anyone in particular, just observations.

btolle · Jul 3, 2005

I have a B7510 with 4' bush hog and it does nicely in 2' tall weeds that are not too thick. I can hear it change RPM's just a little if I hit a real thick spot.

If you need larger than a 4' bush hog or want to finish in a hurry the B7510 will probably not be enough horsepower for you.

I mowed about 3 acres yesterday that has hundreds of pine trees and it took me 4 hours. I could do it in 2 if it were treeless.

Given your circumstances you might be better off with a ZTR and a used larger tractor. The CUT's do have their limitations.

I had an 8N and sometimes wish I still had it even though it had a lot less power. It did have better ground clearance and position control.

I know that my Kubota dealer here wholesales most of the tradein's to someone. The only thing they will keep is a late model in pristine condition. If I were looking for a used tractor I would ask him how to get in touch with the wholesaler and see what he had. You might try asking a couple of dealers about who they wholesale to.

Bill Tolle

jackl · Jul 3, 2005

I have a B7510HST with a LA302 FEL and Bush Hog 60" Finish Mower. I paid $14,400 for the whole package. I was quoted $16,100 for the B7610, but I didn't bargain on it as I did with the 7510. It would have been nice to have the extra HP, but the 7510 has suited me just fine. I mow 1.5 acres of lawn and another 1.5 acres of fields with lots of trees and it does a great job on both. It just turned 22 hours today. My only regret is that I think I should have gotten the industrial tires instead of turf. However, my dealer said he exchange them if I wanted.

DK35vince · Jul 3, 2005

( I suppose some might take that at face value and believe it, but the truth is Kioti cost more. I suppose if one buys a Kubota from an overpriced dealer they may think Kubota cost more, but I have priced both machines to enough extent I can say the Kioti is more. )

That may be true in your area, it is definately not true in mine.
Kubota in my area is considerable more expensive.
I did not take it at face value, I priced both and saw it for myself, thanks.
Area seems to play a huge part in pricing.

orangebluegreen · Jul 11, 2005

So far the lowest prices without beating up on the dealer the Kubota has been 500. less on B7510 Turf Special with 60” MMM and LA302 loader vs. CK20 with 60” rear discharge MMM and Kioti loader. These prices are out of my state, prices in state have been a wider margin of inequity and much higher.

Off the financing topic....

The more I read the more I learn. According to specs on Kioti’s site, the rear discharge MMM only lowers to 2.5” vs. side discharges 1.65”, a consideration for my main yard Bermuda grass that likes being cut as low as a golf course green. The outer perimeter of Bahia doesn’t matter height wise. There are so many errors on the various sites regarding specs, it’s hard to use them. For instance, Kioti’s site shows a 72” rear discharge MMM having height range of 3/8 to 3/8, and Kubota shows the same engine bore x stroke on several tractors with largely different cubic inches, this cannot be correct.

A major concern is mandrel/bearing reliability as it has been a thorn on the Craftsman rider. In my opinion the Craftsman deck spindles are inadequate and I have replaced several (lost count how many) over the years due to bearing failure. The Craftsman are not greaseable and the bearing cannot be replaced, $70. each time. I noticed Kioti’s deck uses sealed non-greaseable vs. Kubota’s greaseable mandrels. Obviously design loads have to be correct, but I’m curious what reliability has been between Kioti mandrel vs. Kubota’s? I see New Holland offers a rear discharge MMM so looking at that also. I read through the “grease thread” but have not seen mention of mandrel bearing failure. Perhaps they are designed properly unlike what I’ve experienced with Craftsman.

I like the decks on Walker ZTR’s, if the pictures are accurate, looks like all the blades are shaft driven allowing a huge blade overlap. I can fabricate or adapt almost anything, hmm... 74” Walker deck on a Kubota small frame.