B21 - Mid mount or front mount conversion

[nvr-enuf]

Hello everyone - I am in need of some help / advice. I have a B21 TLB, love the machine, works great for my needs. For winter, I have a Kubota 3pt blower in the rear but my neck is getting sore driving backwards. I am in the process of converting my loader to a skid steer quick connect system and realized that I might be able to mount the blower to the front, as long as I can transfer power to the unit. The tractor only has a rear PTO. Does anyone know if I can add a front PTO, mid mount PTO, or use transfer case to the rear PTO in order to transfer to the front?

Thanks in advance

 

[BruceWard]

Can you get a hydraullic blower that the B21 has sufficient flow to run?

I think it would be really difficult to transfer the rear PTO force to the front, there is not a lot of room under the B21.

The PTO shaft is driven by hydrallics so I guess you could install a similar hydrallic PTO on the front.

 

[dfkrug]

The PTO shaft is driven by hydrallics so I guess you could install a similar hydrallic PTO on the front.

Hunh? The PTO on the B21 is driven by a drive shaft that goes thru the
HST to the gearbox, then out the back. No hydraulics at all.

It would be very hard to have a mechanical PTO driving something on the
front. One could use a hydraulic motor on the front, as I did with my
concrete mixer, but the B21 has only a bit more than 8GPM to work with.
That is doable, with the correct motor. Is that what you mean?

 

[CHDinCT]

Here's a link to give you some ideas. Perhaps you could buy what components you need given you already have the blower. I think these would require a rear PTO driven hydraulic pump and reservoir to power the FEL mounted blower.

PRONOVOST-PUMA SNOWBLOWERS

EDIT:
Oops - looks like you'd need 41 PTO HP to run any of these units

"For installation on front end loader, the tractor must develop approximately 41 HP at the PTO at 540 RPM so that pump PTP-24G can supply 24 gallons @ 2500 psi; the motor will then be the MLHS-125"

 

[BruceWard]

A B21 has about 7 GPM at 2000 psi available for the FEL or backhoe. That is the hydraullic supply that would be available to the snow blower.

 

[BeezFun]

I assume you know they make rear pull 3pt snowthrowers. That would solve the pain in the neck problem without any mechanical gyrations.

 

[nvr-enuf]

Thanks for the confirmation of PTO off of the engine and not via hydraulics - I was pretty sure it was mechanical.

My choices are to either add a PTO driven hydraulic pump or to increase the hydraulic output of the tractors implement pump.

I will be swapping out the 21 HP 3 cylinder engine with a 24 or 26 hp diesel Kubota 3 cylinder engine in less than a year. I have the spare engine, just need to start the project.

So, my question is, can I increase the implement hydraulic pump thereby simply adding section to the control valve or seperate valve w/ power beyond?

Based on 8 gpm and 2000 psi that equates to around 9 hp. I wonder what typical skid steer implements require, maybe if I can get 12 to 15 gpm at 2000 psi, I could then run items like a harley rake and maybe the snow blower.

If I use the PTO pump, I have to get the PTO pump, hyd tank, run the hoses to the front.

If anyone knows if I can fit a higher flow implement pump on my b21, please let me know. I wonder if a b26 implement pump will fit and what output flow & pressure it is rated for.

 

[lhansman]

I followed the link supplied and these front mount snowblowers do not use your built in Kubota hydraulic pump. They supply a hydraulic pump and 26 gallon tank that you mount on your three point hitch and then you must run the hydraulic lines to the front of the tractor. Therefore I think the horsepower requirements they are stating are PTO horsepower but I do not know what the PTO horsepower of the B21 is.

My B26 has 19.5 PTO horsepower according to the spec sheet so it appears on based on teh Provonost specs that I could run one of their blowers. Has anyone installed a 60"-64" front mount snowblower on a Kubota B26 or similar sized tractor? If so, I would love to hear what was involved and how it works for you.

 

[number two]

BruceWard mentioned there's not much room under the tractor.Could a Erskine snow blower work here?It runs off the rear PTO with a drive shaft under the tractor-seem to be good units.

 

[BruceWard]

The B21 PTO is driven hydraullicly. It is arouddn 13 hp.

A good solution might be to mount that extra engine to the 3 point with a pump attached to it and use it to power a front mounted hydraullic snow blower.

Why would you change the engine out for a few extra horsepower?

 

[dfkrug]

My choices are to either add a PTO driven hydraulic pump or to increase the hydraulic output of the tractors implement pump.

I will be swapping out the 21 HP 3 cylinder engine with a 24 or 26 hp diesel Kubota 3 cylinder engine in less than a year. I have the spare engine, just need to start the project.

So, my question is, can I increase the implement hydraulic pump thereby simply adding section to the control valve or seperate valve w/ power beyond?

I don't know it you have looked at all the pix I posted while rebuilding my
B21, but the engine (and hyd pump) are designed to fit the particular
application. So it will not be easy making a substitution. The engine has
particular mainframe mounting points and a special bellhousing with a
small gearbox on it. The hyd pump bolts to the right side on the engine,
and has limited room for expansion.

Anyway, in designing a hyd system to drive your implement, you are
limited by the work (power) that your engine can deliver. Plus, you will
have to have the correct output speed. Running a blower or mower too
slow ain't gonna cut it. You can always get the speed you want with
your tractor's pump by using a hyd motor with small enough displacement.
You will then be limited by the power demands of your implement.....this
can sometimes be mitigated by going slower (doing less work).

A PTO pump/res system is not a magic bullet. Output power is still limited by
your engine. Skidsteer implements are often designed for machines that
put out 14+ GPM at 3000+psi. That's a lot of power. There are not that
many hyd rotary implements that I have seen designed to run with low-
flow hydraulics at 2000psi.

 

[nvr-enuf]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I ended up adding a 23 hp kawasaki engine, 30 gallon reservoir then ran the hydraulic lines to a hyd motor attached to the 60" blower which is mounted on my FEL.

The issue I have now is that the loader tends to lift my front tires off the ground. I have a lot of weight on the rear which is obviously not helping me as well.

Does anyone know if they make a snow blower adaptor to the front of the tractor versus on my FEL? That may be the silver bullet.

As far as the power of my blower, it is pretty good - use loose alot with the hydrostatics but having the 23 hp supply seems to be good power to my previous 13 hp pto rear set up

 

[nvr-enuf]

Hello everyone - I ended up installing my rear 3pt kubota blower onto the loader arms of the Kubota B21, listed below are the pieces that are required:
- ATI Quick attach, Tach All; currently I have this for sale on ebay. This also will allow light duty (2000 lb) Skid Steer forks which is EXTREMELY handy attachment to any loader
- Speedco Skid Steer to 3PT conversion plate
- Hydraulic motor to power the blower; I have a 60" Kubota BL2660 blower that is set up to support mounting a Hydraulic motor. This will be listed for sale in a short time
- Power unit - I used a 23 HP kawie gas engine in the rear of the tractor with a pump to provide the hydraulic power. I mounted the engine, reservoir, gas tank, battery, pump, etc onto a 2' by 5' frame which was then bolted to a standard 3pt 48" box scraper.
- Hydraulic control; control valve to engage / control blower on versus off. This will also allow reversing the blower which is helpful if the blower becomes clogged.

Worked good - much better looking forward than having to turn my head and drive in reverse.

 

[art]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I ended up adding a 23 hp kawasaki engine, 30 gallon reservoir then ran the hydraulic lines to a hyd motor attached to the 60" blower which is mounted on my FEL.

The issue I have now is that the loader tends to lift my front tires off the ground. I have a lot of weight on the rear which is obviously not helping me as well.

Does anyone know if they make a snow blower adaptor to the front of the tractor versus on my FEL? That may be the silver bullet.

As far as the power of my blower, it is pretty good - use loose alot with the hydrostatics but having the 23 hp supply seems to be good power to my previous 13 hp pto rear set up

Put the loader in float!