B21 backhoe subframe

Globalchallenger · Apr 27, 2020

Hi all...noob here, I have a couple questions for the group I'm hoping for some input on. I just got my first tractor...a Kubota B21 in relatively good shape. It has the front loader, a Gannon 54" box blade, a Brush Hog mower...but did not come with the BT751 backhoe. I'd like to get a backhoe on her...Kubota preferably, but am also looking at WoodMaxx and Woods backhoes...and yes, I'm LOOKING at the stuff from China. I have heard from multiple sources that it is unwise to mount a backhoe straight to the Cat 1 TPH. The Woods BH65 at under 700 lbs. seems dainty enough to not break my B21, and I had to pass up a SMOKING deal on a National 728 because it seemed a bit much...so instead, I'm waiting for that Baby Bear Backhoe that's juuuuuuust right. Accordingly, I'm hoping some of you might point me in the right direction.
Is there a subframe maker or kit for the B21 that would let me sling on something that would suit the B21...or should I just play it safe with a Mama Bear Backhoe that although might not hurt my Kubota, also might not be as effective as I'd like?
Also, ANY tips on maintaining my machine would be great...yes, I'm religious about checking and changing the fluids, preheating the glow plugs, and greasing regularly.
...I work on and maintain pumps, hydraulics, machinery, etc. for a living and have access to a full hydraulics shop at work so...kinda lucky there. I don't have a full machine shop at my house, but if I could come up with any plans for a subframe and/or suitable backhoe, I could probably farm out the cutting and do all the welding myself.
Anyway, thanks in advance.

fried1765 · Apr 27, 2020

Globalchallenger said:
Hi all...noob here, I have a couple questions for the group I'm hoping for some input on. I just got my first tractor...a Kubota B21 in relatively good shape. It has the front loader, a Gannon 54" box blade, a Brush Hog mower...but did not come with the BT751 backhoe. I'd like to get a backhoe on her...Kubota preferably, but am also looking at WoodMaxx and Woods backhoes...and yes, I'm LOOKING at the stuff from China. I have heard from multiple sources that it is unwise to mount a backhoe straight to the Cat 1 TPH. The Woods BH65 at under 700 lbs. seems dainty enough to not break my B21, and I had to pass up a SMOKING deal on a National 728 because it seemed a bit much...so instead, I'm waiting for that Baby Bear Backhoe that's juuuuuuust right. Accordingly, I'm hoping some of you might point me in the right direction.
Is there a subframe maker or kit for the B21 that would let me sling on something that would suit the B21...or should I just play it safe with a Mama Bear Backhoe that although might not hurt my Kubota, also might not be as effective as I'd like?
Also, ANY tips on maintaining my machine would be great...yes, I'm religious about checking and changing the fluids, preheating the glow plugs, and greasing regularly.
...I work on and maintain pumps, hydraulics, machinery, etc. for a living and have access to a full hydraulics shop at work so...kinda lucky there. I don't have a full machine shop at my house, but if I could come up with any plans for a subframe and/or suitable backhoe, I could probably farm out the cutting and do all the welding myself.
Anyway, thanks in advance.

Using a backhoe with a three point hitch mount is a bad idea.
You run the risk of ripping out the 3pt. top link attach point.
A subframe is the way to go.

Smokeydog · Apr 27, 2020

Wait until you find the right Kubota backhoe attachment. Be Money well spent.

Like you my B20 didn’t come with a backhoe. A while later my Dad bought L3830 with the Rhino 8.5’ subframe backhoe. Pretty easy welding plates modification to fit the B20 too. B20 also had better hydraulic flow to operate than the L3830. Dug a few stumps, buried a horse and some ditching. Had plenty of power but did not like it on either tractor.

My opinion is these add on backhoes are as dangerous as carrying a loaded and cocked gun in your pocket. The balance is wrong. Not being able to swing the boom or control the outriggers from the drivers seat while using the FEL. Can’t reach the controls. Also reduces your ground clearance.

Had a full size backhoe, now a B26 and M59. World of difference of operation, safety and control.

Sold the B20 and traded the L3830 with backhoe for the M59 without a backhoe. Took almost thee years to find a used bt1200 backhoe attachment for the M59. Well worth the wait.

Several years of use after trading learned the subframe on the Rhino backhoe had broke the L3830 transmission case where the front subframe bracket was attached. $$$

Hill-Billy · Apr 28, 2020

I agree about installing the Kubota backhoe to match your tractor. I also agree that a three point hitch mounted backhoe is a bad idea for the same reasons as everyone else, but I've never owned or used one of those types either.
Having said that, Kubota didn't didn't have the option for a matching Kubota backhoe when I purchased my B7510 in 2006. Kubota didn't make a backhoe for that model, so I purchased a Woods Ground Breaker 6000 and the 4-point sub-frame. The Woods sub-frame on mine (at the time) was the improved model vs the tube steel type. My sub-frame attaches to the front of the tractor at the FEL structural steel and continues to the rear of the tractor. The rear tires were removed to install the sub-frame. This does not attach or have anything to do with the three point hitch.
I did all the installation myself, as I am a mechanic / welder for my regular job. A little bit of a first time learning curve, but I installed it in about 8 or 10 hours over a couple weekends.
The Woods Ground Breaker has suited me well for home owner tasks like stumps and trenches, I use it a lot, but I don't treat it like a rental. The sub-frame and backhoe are very sturdy and well made. I have no regrets with it.
Now what I don't like about it:
It's very long because the seat is part of the backhoe. The sub-frame supports it just fine, but it's just ugly compared to the newer tractors that use one seat.
Sometimes it takes me 10 minutes to install and sometimes 45 minutes using bad words! So I made a storage cart that allows the backhoe to be removed and installed without turning the tractor on to use the out riggers and backhoe bucket for connecting to the 4-point hitch. Much easier now with the cart, but that's another project I had to make due to the installation process of the Woods backhoe.
I bought the backhoe to install myself so I saved money. I paid 4K for the backhoe and mechanical thumb. To buy it and have it installed at the dealer was 8K. The sub-frame was an additional $1200.
The Woods installation instructions were just OK for assembly, not great. Some of the hydraulic hoses provided in the kit were short, so I had to make new ones. Woods stated the hose kit was for different models and I should use the short hose provided in the kit to connect and make the long hose. I thought that was a bad idea, so I made the correct length suction and discharge hoses.
Good luck with your search, a backhoe will make your tractor an even better machine.

Globalchallenger · May 11, 2020

Found the backhoe to match my B21...just got lucky.

Smokeydog · May 11, 2020

I’ll take luck any day. Great. Nice machine! Enjoy, be safe and productive.

Deyone73 · Jun 6, 2021

Globalchallenger said:
Hi all...noob here, I have a couple questions for the group I'm hoping for some input on. I just got my first tractor...a Kubota B21 in relatively good shape. It has the front loader, a Gannon 54" box blade, a Brush Hog mower...but did not come with the BT751 backhoe. I'd like to get a backhoe on her...Kubota preferably, but am also looking at WoodMaxx and Woods backhoes...and yes, I'm LOOKING at the stuff from China. I have heard from multiple sources that it is unwise to mount a backhoe straight to the Cat 1 TPH. The Woods BH65 at under 700 lbs. seems dainty enough to not break my B21, and I had to pass up a SMOKING deal on a National 728 because it seemed a bit much...so instead, I'm waiting for that Baby Bear Backhoe that's juuuuuuust right. Accordingly, I'm hoping some of you might point me in the right direction.
Is there a subframe maker or kit for the B21 that would let me sling on something that would suit the B21...or should I just play it safe with a Mama Bear Backhoe that although might not hurt my Kubota, also might not be as effective as I'd like?
Also, ANY tips on maintaining my machine would be great...yes, I'm religious about checking and changing the fluids, preheating the glow plugs, and greasing regularly.
...I work on and maintain pumps, hydraulics, machinery, etc. for a living and have access to a full hydraulics shop at work so...kinda lucky there. I don't have a full machine shop at my house, but if I could come up with any plans for a subframe and/or suitable backhoe, I could probably farm out the cutting and do all the welding myself.
Anyway, thanks in advance.