B21 Backhoe question

[lhansman]

SixMilesSouth

I traded my B21 for a B26 a couple of years ago and am now hoping to sell my B26 to upgrade to an L45 or a used M59 I have found. PM me if you are interested in the B26.

I got a lot of work done with my B21 over ~1,800 hours but the B26 is a huge improvement over the B21 - particularly if you are going to be doing a lot of backhoe work.

Lauren

 

[MX5000]

Ihnsman has it right. If you can afford and find a used B26, you're going to be better off (unless the used B26 has an issue you didn't know of). The B21 was discontinued and replaced by the B26 to resolve the complaints and shortcomings with the B21. The B21 is a nice tractor, a pretty beefy little unit, but if you tried out a B26, you probably wouldn't want the B21 unless you got a great deal on it. When you go to buy 3pt hitch implements that utilize the PTO, the PTO was 13.5HP if my memory serves me and that was often barely enough to do the job. When I had my B21 for 5 years, I owned a nice chipper and it would almost stall the engine on larger branches and I also owned a Meteor 51 inch 3pt hitch snow blower. The snow blower had a heck of a time with wet snow. It would throw it maybe 5 feet? The B26 has more PTO HP to run the implements. The B26 also comes with a quick attach loader bucket bracket, which you may miss after you see one. I know I was pricing the aftermarket brackets all the time and considered fabricating up one and kept putting it off. The stabilizers would leak down on the backhoe on the B21 and I believe they resolved that on the B26 or at least slowed down the leak down. The loader and backhoe specs were considerably better. The B21 was a nice tractor, but I often wished I bought the B26 for a few thousand more. The amount of time you spend on the internet trying to fix the B21 shortcomings might be worth that time saved. Then again, it's just my experience.

 

[troutsqueezer]

Ihnsman has it right. If you can afford and find a used B26, you're going to be better off (unless the used B26 has an issue you didn't know of). The B21 was discontinued and replaced by the B26 to resolve the complaints and shortcomings with the B21. The B21 is a nice tractor, a pretty beefy little unit, but if you tried out a B26, you probably wouldn't want the B21 unless you got a great deal on it. When you go to buy 3pt hitch implements that utilize the PTO, the PTO was 13.5HP if my memory serves me and that was often barely enough to do the job. When I had my B21 for 5 years, I owned a nice chipper and it would almost stall the engine on larger branches and I also owned a Meteor 51 inch 3pt hitch snow blower. The snow blower had a heck of a time with wet snow. It would throw it maybe 5 feet? The B26 has more PTO HP to run the implements. The B26 also comes with a quick attach loader bucket bracket, which you may miss after you see one. I know I was pricing the aftermarket brackets all the time and considered fabricating up one and kept putting it off. The stabilizers would leak down on the backhoe on the B21 and I believe they resolved that on the B26 or at least slowed down the leak down. The loader and backhoe specs were considerably better. The B21 was a nice tractor, but I often wished I bought the B26 for a few thousand more. The amount of time you spend on the internet trying to fix the B21 shortcomings might be worth that time saved. Then again, it's just my experience.

Isn't that true of just about anything, whether it be cars or tractors or computers? If you wait for the next model or spend a bit more money you can always get something that has some refinement to the models previous to it. But at what point do you put your stake in the ground and get on with it? There is always something better around the corner, yes?

I haven't ever driven a B26 and I'm sure it has some improvements but I'll have to say that I haven't run into anything with my B21 yet that made me wish I had an upgraded tractor. I suppose it depends on how close to the edge you push whatever implements you choose to employ. In my case, I've never pushed that envelope and I've cut some pretty big pads in my hilly, rocky parcel.

 

[Ken45101]

The amount of time you spend on the internet trying to fix the B21 shortcomings might be worth that time saved. Then again, it's just my experience.

Gee, I've had a B21 for 8 years and had not even thought about looking for "fixes". What "fixes" are there?

Of course it is small and somewhat limited but that's true for virtually any machine and no backhoe can do some of the things a mini ex can do.

Ken

 

[MX5000]

Gee, I've had a B21 for 8 years and had not even thought about looking for "fixes". What "fixes" are there?

Of course it is small and somewhat limited but that's true for virtually any machine and no backhoe can do some of the things a mini ex can do.

Ken

Gee, Did you actually read the thread? I named a few known issues and complaints. I'm glad you're happy with your machine. I used mine as a side business for years in addition to around my property. The size was nice, but there was some things that caused Kubota to get many complaints. That's why they stopped making the B21 and went to a B26.

 

[Ken45101]

Gee, Did you actually read the thread? I named a few known issues and complaints. I'm glad you're happy with your machine. I used mine as a side business for years in addition to around my property. The size was nice, but there was some things that caused Kubota to get many complaints. That's why they stopped making the B21 and went to a B26.

Yes, I have READ the entire thread. Most of it has been about whether the unit mentioned is a true B21 with Kubota bh unit.

Sure, there is always "more power, more capability", but that's true even if you buy the biggest units. YOU mentioned searching for internet FIXES. I'm still scratching my head about "fixes". I've read the thread but I'm not aware of any "fixes" other than buying something else. I have not searched the internet for ways to make it go up my steep driveway faster or for ways to remote the steering and moving the unit from the digging position.

Ken

 

[troutsqueezer]

I "fixed" the steering on mine by adding a steering knob. I also fixed the storage problem by adding a toolbox.

I think that after more than 10 years of producing a certain model of tractor it's normal to up the model number and add a few modifications. If it was that buggy, why did they stick with the basic design for so many years?

And how come they went to a plastic canopy? I've had to take a few dents out of mine from hitting strong tree branches. That might not be possible if it were plastic. Are you sure they didn't start making the B26 to save some money?

 

[SixMilesSouth]

Hey, if money were no object, I wouldn't need the tractor because I'd have tropical women in bikinis doing the work for me on my private island in the south pacific. But, that's not happening. So, I'm working with the budget I have. A b26 would be nice. An L35/39 would be better.

But right now guys I've got a shovel, a garden cart and a lot of work to do. Just came from looking at a 1500 hour B21 (a real one). Not bad, but I'll keep looking.

I'm starting to think I'd be happy with a B20 if it saved me some green and did the same work. THey're getting up there in age though, right?

 

[lhansman]

I apologize for diverting attention from your B21 search SixMileSouth. My B26 is definitely going to cost more that a B21 but as someone who owned from new a B21 for 6 years and put ~1,800 hours on it I can tell you that it is a powerful little machine that will do a lot of work.

I did not mean to put the B21 owners on the defensive, but there are significant advantages (in my opinion) to a B26 over a B21 which I have enjoyed in the 300 hours I have put on my B26. From an operating perspective, here are what I see as the main advantages:

1) The seat. I'm starting off slow here, but don't overlook this important ergonomic benefit. I know real men (and those with a bucket and shovel right now) may not think this matters, but after spending 10 or 12 hours on the thinly padded steel of the B21 your back will thank you for going to the B26.

2) The tractor is essentially unchanged between the B21 and B26 in my opinion except for the elimination of the clutch pedal. There are some grades on my property that I can go up in medium range on the B26 that I had to use low on the B21 but that is not a big deal.

3) It seems to me that the additional 5 hp in the B26 has been put mostly into the hydraulic capabilities of the B26 vs the B21. This translates into a noticeable increase in lifting power of the loader and huge improvements on the backhoe. In addition the B26 comes with the skid steer quick attach option on the front. I always take at least one bucket and a set of pallet forks to my jobs and usually wind up needing both at some point.

4) To me, most of the B26 advantages are in the backhoe area which is why (based on SixMileSouth indicating he had a lot of backhoe work to do) I brought the B26 into the discussion.

i) There is 25% - 35% more power in all backhoe functions of the B26 over the B21. If like me, once you start digging, you don't flip the seat around unless you absolutely have to, this is a big plus since you can move the B26 whereever you want in any direction you want with the hoe. I operated the B21 and the B26 with loaded tires and the B21 could barely get the back end off the ground with the hoe. The B26 has no problem at all and you can easily reposition the B26 forward, left of right with the hoe.

ii) Most B26's that I have seen come with the auxiliary rear hydraulics for the thumb and if like me you live in rocky country the thumb is a huge time saver in removing and or placing rocks.

iii) The B26 has a quick attach option for the backhoe which means you can switch out buckets in about 5 minutes rather than the 20 - 30 minutes it takes with a B21.

iv) The B26 has inching valves for the backhoe which make being smooth with it much easier. I did a lot of leaky basement excavation work with my B21 and despite hundreds of hours of seat time I always had to be very careful with swinging and lifting or curling next to a building. If you stop the second function without reducing or stopping your swing position of the lever, the B21 hoe will suddenly swing very quickly since it now has all of the pump output and that takes some getting used to. The B26 responds in a much smoother fashion.

v) There is almost a foot of additional reach with a B26 backhoe vs the B21 which I find handy when digging along basements.

vi) There are many times on a B21 that the stabilizers can't lift the back of the tractor unless you assist them with the hoe. The B26 stabilizers will lift the backend of the B26 off the ground at any engine speed.

5) I am of two minds about the plastic roof canopy on the B26. For those who are not aware, there is a steel plate under the plastic to ensure FOPS protection and the additional height of the plastic roof makes it barely fit in my garage entrance. However, as someone who goes in the bush sometimes, the metal roof of my B21 did get a little scratched up and dented from wayward branches (and/or operator error) whereas the plastic one still looks like new. I don't think Kubota saved any money by including both a metal plate and a plastic covering by I could be wrong.

In summary, I saw my first B26 in early 2007 and thought then it was an improvement but I felt my trusty B21 was fine for me. In late 2008 I tried out a B26 at a dealer event and immediately realized that there was a lot more to the B26 than the more comfortable seat! I was able to purchase a low hour used B26 in late 2009 and am very happy with that decision. My B21 did a lot of work for me but for the incremental additional cost of a B26 if you are doing a lot of backhoe work I think it is the better choice. However, as pointed out by SixMileSouth, one also has to consider where you are starting from and what your budget is.

 

[SixMilesSouth]

lhansman, no need to worry about diverting my search, the more people who join the conversation, the more I can learn. I'm looking at the B21 as a gateway drug. Maybe I can work my way up to the extra power of the B26's hoe. But can't do it right now.

And I agree on the plastic canopy. It would take minor abuse unscathed, and if you're saying it has some steel underneath it, then you shouldn't have a problem with bigger bang ups.

Thanks for everyone's help so far.

 

[troutsqueezer]

Well written. However, I harken back to my original response. Let's say someone with an L39 (next model up from yours) pipes in and says he prefers the slightly more robust features of that model compared to the B26 for reasons that are Germaine to his line of work. Is that a valid response to the OP's question? The L48 is better yet (and really, what is the definition of better here?), but with this line of reasoning we stray from the path the OP was hoping to lead us down.

 

[SixMilesSouth]

One other comment, though, about the stabilizers on the B21 having trouble lifting the back end. I looked at a 1400 hour B21 yesterday. It was a local rental and would be my last choice, but wanted a gauge of what's on the market. I specifically put the machine to idle and had no trouble bringing the rear end up. I wonder if your machine was down on power or had a leak? Because this thing was no gem, let me tell you!

 

[Ken45101]

One other comment, though, about the stabilizers on the B21 having trouble lifting the back end. I looked at a 1400 hour B21 yesterday. It was a local rental and would be my last choice, but wanted a gauge of what's on the market. I specifically put the machine to idle and had no trouble bringing the rear end up. I wonder if your machine was down on power or had a leak? Because this thing was no gem, let me tell you!

Same thing here, my B21 stabilizers lift it okay most of the time.

Well written. However, I harken back to my original response. Let's say someone with an L39 (next model up from yours) pipes in and says he prefers the slightly more robust features of that model compared to the B26 for reasons that are Germaine to his line of work. Is that a valid response to the OP's question? The L48 is better yet (and really, what is the definition of better here?), but with this line of reasoning we stray from the path the OP was hoping to lead us down.

I agree. My KX-121 (mini ex) is even better :laughing:

Ken

 

[lhansman]

Do the B21 stabilizer's that lift OK have loaded rear tires as mine did? That adds 400-500 pounds of weight and could be the difference.

Funny you should mention the L39. My dealer actually had an L39 on the lot with about the same hours as my used B26 (less than 200 in both cases) that a customer had traded in on an L45. I salivated over the hoe on the L39 but unfortunately even after test driving it I just did not like the glide shift transmission. In Sept. 09 the dealer offered me the L39 for $2,000 more than what I paid for the B26 but because it did not have the HST I walked. That L39 is still sitting on his lot today.

I feel that the B26/B21 and B20 are all in the same "class". Clearly L39, L48 and L45 are in a different class and so the incremental cost of comparable machines is much higher plus you are moving to a larger machine which can compromise uitility for some owners.

Personally I love the tractor size of my B26 and the B21. If I could get one with a hoe that had a couple of more feet of reach (or an extend-a-hoe) and a loader that could lift 2,000 pounds with the same width and perhaps a 30 - 35 hp engine, that would be ideal for the work I do. I like the additional capability of an L45 but that extra foot of width would be a problem with a number of the jobs I have done.

Good luck in your search SixMilesSouth.

 

[Ken45101]

Do the B21 stabilizer's that lift OK have loaded rear tires as mine did? That adds 400-500 pounds of weight and could be the difference.

Good point, that could be the difference!

Personally I love the tractor size of my B26 and the B21. If I could get one with a hoe that had a couple of more feet of reach (or an extend-a-hoe) and a loader that could lift 2,000 pounds with the same width...

Now that's one thing I do not like about my B21, the narrow width. We are in steep hilly terrain and the B21 feels a bit unstable to me because of it's narrow width. I've even felt nervous turning it around on our driveway.

Ken

 

[lhansman]

You might find loading the rear tires will make your machine more stable on hilly terrain. My property is very hilly too and it made a difference for me. The only downside was that there were a couple of slopes I could go up in medium before but with the B21 I had to use low range after loading the rears.

There has been more than one occasion where I got myself into a situation where I had to extend the hoe up a slope to ensure I didn't flip sideways even with the loaded tires.

Lauren