Automatically refill tractor diesel

[SpringHollow]

IMHO.. I've found that the output from most gennies, sized for their jobs, is far better (cleaner) than the utility.. at least for brushless designs.

We put some standby and gas portables on a scope and they were terrible, large shoulders with spikes. The few good brands looked perfect.

Ken

 

[Soundguy]

sounds like a load / governor issue if it spikes alot.. as in the end.. they all make power the same way... copper and spinning parts.. and those make good sine waves usually...

soundguy

 

[downslope]

Whatever you do, make sure the generator creates high quality power. I learned the hard way with a name brand portable. The equipment it took out cost more than the generator by a factor of 4.

Check that air conditioners LRA (locked rotor amps) rating. It is not the maximum number of amps to run (typical plate rating) but the number of amps required to start it that is important. If all your starting amps for conditioners, pumps, freezers etc that are turned on exceed the generator's capacity, you will be in trouble.

Ken

Would it work to be careful not to let them all start at the same time, or if you have to run multiple appliances, then start the heaviest load first?

 

[Soundguy]

heavy loads will usually be motor start loads.. ac compressor.. well pump.. etc.. figure up to 2x the 'rated' amps ( higher for some older ones ) at startup, plus.. just due tot he nature of the beast.. there will be some noise ont he line when that inductive load is switched on.. etc. but yeah.. staggering large loads is the best option. I know guys that stagger their ac compressor and air handler to make their genny tote the load .. not having hem both kick at the same time. similar with charging up the well, then switching off, then powering the water heater for half an hour, switch off, then back to the well for water pressure for a quick hot shower during no power. just make sure you finish within the volume of hot water you have made..

soundguy

 

[brokenot]

[QUOTEWe put some standby and gas portables on a scope and they were terrible, large shoulders with spikes. The few good brands looked perfect.][/QUOTE]

+1

If your utility company's output is worse than a typical portable generator, they've got problems. Cheaper gensets with "inherent" regulation are particularly bad. Inherent regulation means that, well....there's no *actual* voltage regulation going on. This link will take you to a Honda page, but other manufacturers' sites have similar information. Scroll down to "power output quality":

Honda Power Equipment - Honda Generators - Selecting the right portable generator for you

Cheapo brushless gensets have their place, (i.e. running power tools and such), but with anything requiring clean power they're a no-no. (On the other hand, I did get two niiiiice gas furnaces for free from Craigslist after their owners powered them up during outages with "inherent regulation" brushless generators. Nothing wrong with them other than damaged control circuit boards that can be found on eBay for about $20. Shhhh.....)

As for attaching any type of external tank or fuel source to a tractor, remember to take the fuel's return path to tank into consideration. If you're set up so that the fuel maintains its own level between the two tanks you should be fine. But if you add separate feeds from two tanks and isolate the tanks from one another with valves or something similar, then you'll pull fuel from the auxiliary tank but the return line will still be sending the return fuel back to the primary tank.

 

[Soundguy]

If your utility company's output is worse than a typical portable generator, they've got problems.

At least in my case.. i was not using a 'typical' portable genset.. but a larger pto genset.

IMHO.. the larger the head and output capability and power source running the head, if with good mechanical governing, the better the output in the term of lag and spikes.

more thermal mass, more rotational stored energy.. more copper inductance.. etc.. etc.

all adds up.

soundguy

 

[wrooster]

a graphing oscope meter with time hold showed my ptogenset had better freq regulation and overall cleaner power than my utility line did, iin a head to head test.. soundguy

I think we already covered this (link below) -- there is no possible way that a PTO genset will hold frequency better than the utility service drop. Moreover, you can not measure the frequency of the utility line with any semblance of precision using an oscilloscope or handheld meter. These types of products do not have the requisite frequency reference stability nor features to accurately characterize the frequency of a utility service drop. Google "Allan deviation".

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/204154-clean-power-generator-questions-4.html#post2351528

Wrooster

 

[Soundguy]

I have some decent quality equipment at my house. frequency analizers, praphing oscopes with real time anylize.. can save segments / time frames for anylisis.

I think the biggest issue I see on the utility line may be caused by power factor correction.

i'm not doing this with a 1940's heathkit tube oscope, or a fluke 85$ hand held meter with freq counter.. but real industrial equipment .. for reference.. my graphing oscope was last certified / calibrated by lockheed martin.. which is where I got it from..

soundguy

 

[brokenot]

At least in my case.. i was not using a 'typical' portable genset.. but a larger pto genset.

PTO gensets are usually no better...my Dad had two at the farm. One was an older 15KW unit, the other a fairly new 20KW Winco.

The "troubleshooting" sections in the manuals read virtually the same:

"Voltage too high, decrease engine speed"

"Voltage too low, increase engine speed"

"Voltage flickering or fluctuation, check PTO shaft alignment"

In other words...no built-in regulation whatsoever. A simple generator head, (or two), coupled to a gearbox. Bigger...perhaps. But no better in terms of power output quality than a typical cheapo box store genset.

 

[wrooster]

I have some decent quality equipment at my house. frequency analizers, praphing oscopes with real time anylize.. can save segments / time frames for anylisis.

i'm not doing this with a 1940's heathkit tube oscope, or a fluke 85$ hand held meter with freq counter.. but real industrial equipment .. for reference.. my graphing oscope was last certified / calibrated by lockheed martin.. which is where I got it from..

soundguy

Pictured below on the shelf is a 2 channel 12.5GHz scope at work. It costs as much a really nice house in a really nice neighborhood. On top of it is a 2 channel FET probe pre-amp that costs about as much as an optioned-out Honda Accord. Below it is a 4 channel 2.5Ghz scope, and you can get a decent Mercedes C-class for what you pay for it.

All that said, none of them are suitable for precision frequency measurements, nor for generating Allan variance/deviation plots. That's not what scopes are used for. You make basic frequency measurements with a counter connected to a frequency reference, such as a Cs, Rb, or GPS-sync timebase. Additionally, a TIE (time interval analyzer), once again hung off a reference clock, gives you the necessary Allan variance/deviation plots.

Wrooster