ATF change interval - Do you stick to the OE spec ?

[crazyal]

My '13 Rav4 doesn't even have a dipstick. The oil is good for the life of the transmission. I did my '00 Tundra after about 130k (lots of towing beyond what it was rated for) and since a friend does oil analysis he tested it. He said it was fine. I think the fluid has more to do with the quality of the clutches in the transmission breaking down. Had an '04 TrailBlazer (POS) that after 45k the fluid looked like mud. The manual said to change it after 50k if you used the vehicle routinely in the city in temps about 90, for towing, driving int he mountains, or as a taxi, otherwise at 100k. I didn't have a garage at the time so I had a local guy flush it and he said that he didn't think the transmission had much more than another 20k left in it. Luckily the GF had an extended warranty that paid to replace it. Once they did it went down the road.

 

[DEWFPO]

My '13 Rav4 doesn't even have a dipstick. The oil is good for the life of the transmission.

I hate to say this but it's not. And that's the problem with the factory recommendations.

An example.... The A750E/F Aisen-Warner transmissions behind the 1GR-FE Toyota engines. They had simple problems with these transmissions for the first several years that a simple, complete ATF fluid exchange solved, but even the dealers didn't understand it and were replacing whole transmissions without attempting the atf changeout first to see if it solved the problem. Some under warranty, some not. It was a huge waste of money for Toyota and many customers. ~95% of this particular type of problem was SOLVED by a full ATF exchange even though Toyota said, and their dealers INSISTED on not changing the ATF.

The bottom line was, even thought the ATF was supposed to be lifetime (what is that really, just till the end of the warranty period?), the ATF needed to be changed (full exchange) at 65K and then pan dumps every other 35k (sooner and more frequently if you towed or off-roaded a lot). These trans also have no dipstick and people were told not to touch them ..... that they were sealed. All a bunch of whoey. (There is a way to measure the fluid without a dipstick and all of these transmissions have a fill plug, drain plug, and a fluid level check plug.)

I did mine at 65K and the ATF looked life chocolate syrup and I replaced it with full synthetic that met the OE specs. I'm getting ready to do the pan drain and refill as well.

Don't believe the baloney about lifetime fluid. It does not exist, no matter what you are told. It makes the manufacturer 'look' green' because you are not having to change fluids, and they think it sells more vehicles.

(In this particular case, the glues that held the clutch material together were gumming up the fluid as the clutch plates wore and were causing torque convertor chatter/shudder at low rpm's in high gears).

DEWFPO

 

[3930dave]

Depends how "life" is defined.

Do I think a competent manufacturer can build a sealed trani that will probably make it through the factory warranty claim period - Yes. Will that same trani work for the long lifespan I typically want - I think Not.

My initial reaction to Lifetime Sealed transmissions was "If it sounds to good to be true......", and I haven't yet seen enough consumer level field data to believe otherwise.

Rgds, D.

 

[sld]

Nice setup. Is that filter a spin-on, or an in-line type ?

Rgds, D.

The filter is a spin-on housing with what looks like a tightly wound roll of toilet paper inside. It cost about 25 bucks or so. With 8 quarts of fluid (I measured taking it out) it costs about 60 bucks for the service. Not bad all in all.

 

[hosspuller]

I have a 2001 Allison transmission behind a 8.1 gasser. It tows a GN horse trailer most of the time. Haven't yet cracked 50,000 miles on the odometer. GM says to change the fluid every 25,000 miles when towing. I missed that part in the severe service fine print so changed it at 45k. The reason is oil shear. The ATF loses viscosity after being churned by the torque converter.
The GM recommendation is Dexron 3 but a little reading says Dexron 6 is better at resisting shear although is starts a bit lower than Dexron 3

 

[3930dave]

The filter is a spin-on housing with what looks like a tightly wound roll of toilet paper inside. It cost about 25 bucks or so. With 8 quarts of fluid (I measured taking it out) it costs about 60 bucks for the service. Not bad all in all.

Nice !

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

I have a 2001 Allison transmission behind a 8.1 gasser. It tows a GN horse trailer most of the time. Haven't yet cracked 50,000 miles on the odometer. GM says to change the fluid every 25,000 miles when towing. I missed that part in the severe service fine print so changed it at 45k. The reason is oil shear. The ATF loses viscosity after being churned by the torque converter.
The GM recommendation is Dexron 3 but a little reading says Dexron 6 is better at resisting shear although is starts a bit lower than Dexron 3

ATF doesn't have an easy life.

AFAIK, Dex6 is back spec'd for all Dec3 applications. Another advantage for Dx6 up here is better low temperature performance..... not so noticeable down your way I'd suspect though .

Rgds, D.

 

[clemsonfor]

My '13 Rav4 doesn't even have a dipstick. The oil is good for the life of the transmission. I did my '00 Tundra after about 130k (lots of towing beyond what it was rated for) and since a friend does oil analysis he tested it. He said it was fine. I think the fluid has more to do with the quality of the clutches in the transmission breaking down. Had an '04 TrailBlazer (POS) that after 45k the fluid looked like mud. The manual said to change it after 50k if you used the vehicle routinely in the city in temps about 90, for towing, driving int he mountains, or as a taxi, otherwise at 100k. I didn't have a garage at the time so I had a local guy flush it and he said that he didn't think the transmission had much more than another 20k left in it. Luckily the GF had an extended warranty that paid to replace it. Once they did it went down the road.

Dont buy it either drain it via the plugs the next poster said or suck it out through the cooler lines and replace it. NO way the fluid is good for the life!!

 

[clemsonfor]

Depends how "life" is defined.

Do I think a competent manufacturer can build a sealed trani that will probably make it through the factory warranty claim period - Yes. Will that same trani work for the long lifespan I typically want - I think Not.

My initial reaction to Lifetime Sealed transmissions was "If it sounds to good to be true......", and I haven't yet seen enough consumer level field data to believe otherwise.

Rgds, D.

Yea for most people that think a vehicle is dead at 100K or buy a new one every 3-6 years thats no big deal but vehicles dont die at 100k miles they last 200-300k easy now a days!!! imagine that tundra that is a landscapping or contractor truck, towing a bos trailer or something 5 days a week all year. ANd what that tranny fluid would look like if it made it to 280K!!!

 

[ModMech]

1a) Do you stick to the OEM spec change intervals ?

1b) Do you deliberately modify the interval and why ?

1c) Do you just drive till something happens ?


being TBN, a second question also comes to mind.....

2) How would you contrast your thinking about change intervals for your off-road HST transmissions ?

1a) Yes
1b) No
1c) Yes, see 1a

2) Same answers as for questions 1a,b,c......

I have not seen evidence that manufacturers want owners to perform unnecessary maintenance, nor to ignore the product so long that irreparable harm is done to the component. Maintenance intervals are ALWAYS a balancing act. That said, performing services at 1/2 the manufacturer's suggested intervals are not beneficial, especially if done by "Kaputi Garage" or the like.

In 30+ years of maintaining powered equipment of all types, I have not yet seen an actual failure from following the manufacturer's suggested processes at the prescribed intervals. Now, deviating from same, will often result in costly repairs and lost productivity if not component life.