At Home In The Woods

[firefighter9208]

Ceiling Insulation Prep
Insulating our ceiling has been aberation for all the insulation companies. The fact that we are not finishing the attic but have sub-floor in the attic for structural support has caused the insulation companies to scratch their heads. Most people who build an upstairs like ours finish it so they don't need insulation between the main floor and the upstairs. I described the rational for the subflooring in the attic here.

Building a house can have a never ending stream of drama. The insulation company I described here was scheduled to arrive this afternoon and blow the insulation in our main floor ceiling. We had a general laborer we've used before to arrive this morning to prep the attic for the insulation work scheduled for the afternoon. The plan was for our laborer to remove about 1/3 of the OSB sheets in the attic in the morning. That afternoon the insulation company would blow insulation in the ceiling through the openings caused by removing the OSB. This morning our worker did not show. My wife called him and left a message. He called back and said that he's in Kentucky doing some work there this week.

So my wife called her father who came over. They removed some OSB boards but found the going very slow. To complicate things, the infamous construction manager was supposed to partially screw down the OSB boards but instead he completely screwed them. There are 18 screws in each sheet; there should have been half that number in each sheet. By the time you locate the hard to see screws, dig the sawdust out of the screw heads so you can unscrew them, and remove the screws, you can spend 20 to 30 minutes removing each sheet. Plus, some of the OSB sheets have to be cut because they may sit under walls. My wife and father-in-law saw that there was no way they could remove the OSB in time so the insulation company had to be re-scheduled.

This evening I removed some OSB sheets after work. The loose sheets have been slid over about 3 inches from their installed location. It took me 2 hours to remove 4 sheets. The last sheet went faster than the others once I started getting a system. The screwdriver bit would tend to slip when unscrewing the screws. I found I needed to dig the sawdust out of the screw heads before unscrewing to rectify this problem.

We are trying to re-schedule the insulation blowing for Monday. That will give us the weekend to make sure we have removed the required OSB.

This is the reason that our insulation company installed a fine white fabric on the bottom of the 2nd floor floor joists and blew the insulation in that cavity before the sheetrock was installed. They pulled the fabric very tight and then blew the insulation in on top of it. They did this when they came out and insulated the walls.

My sheetrock guy was a little skeptical about this and was worried that the fabric would sag and he would have a hard time installing the sheetrock on the ceiling. He actually came out and checked before he would agree to do the job. There was no sagging and he was impressed.

If the insulation company was aware that you wanted to insulate this space before hand, I'm suprised they didn't want to do the same thing.

Chris

 

[Obed]

This is the reason that our insulation company installed a fine white fabric on the bottom of the 2nd floor floor joists and blew the insulation in that cavity before the sheetrock was installed. They pulled the fabric very tight and then blew the insulation in on top of it. They did this when they came out and insulated the walls.

My sheetrock guy was a little skeptical about this and was worried that the fabric would sag and he would have a hard time installing the sheetrock on the ceiling. He actually came out and checked before he would agree to do the job. There was no sagging and he was impressed.

If the insulation company was aware that you wanted to insulate this space before hand, I'm suprised they didn't want to do the same thing.

Chris

Chris,
One of the insulation companies who bid our job mentioned this technique. However, their estimate was double the next highest bidder so we didn't give them much consideration.
Obed

 

[Obed]

Yesterday the wife and I spent a long day unscrewing the remaining pieces of attic OSB subflooring required for blowing the main floor ceiling insulation. I'm going to estimate that we removed over 300 screws. The screws were driven deeply below the surface and were difficult to find. I spent all day on my knees with a drinking straw in my mouth and with a drill and screw bit. I used the drinking straw to blow around on the OSB so I could find the screws and blow wood ships out of the top of the screws. Along the walls and behind the knee walls we had to cut the OSB along the walls to remove the sheets. The wife worked with me all day. She marked and cut the OSB while I located and removed screws. We dragged the OSB sheets about 3 inches from their installed locations.

 

[dcyrilc]

Yesterday the wife and I spent a long day unscrewing the remaining pieces of attic OSB subflooring required for blowing the main floor ceiling insulation. I'm going to estimate that we removed over 300 screws. The screws were driven deeply below the surface and were difficult to find. I spent all day on my knees with a drill with a screw bit and a drinking straw in my mouth. I used the drinking straw to blow out the screw holes so I could find the screws and blow wood ships out of the top of the screws. Along the walls and behind the knee walls we had to cut the OSB along the walls to remove the sheets. The wife worked with me all day. She marked and cut the OSB while I located and removed screws. We dragged the OSB sheets about 3 inches from their installed locations.

I don't know that I can really give any input here other than to say not to get discouraged. I'm not envious of all the hard work you're having to do, but it will pay off in the long run. You're going to have a great house which will serve you well for many years to come.:thumbsup:

 

[Obed]

Saturday we got a lot of heavy rain. While working in the attic, we noticed a leak around the chimney flue. We don't yet have a chimney cap. Unfortunately, when the vinyl guys put vinyl around the chimney, they didn't erect anything to temporarily divert water or warn us about the need to cover the chimney. Before the vinyl was installed, water would just roll off the temporary osb that covered the chimney. After the vinyl was installed, the water was trapped by the vinyl around the osb and had to go down the chimney. So we put some plastic and boards over the chimney until the fireplace company installs the chimney cap. I'm not comfortable being up on that 8/12 pitch roof.

 

[bake321]

OBED

You may want to check out "Southern Kentucky Hardwood" for flooring, 111 Holland St
Gamaliel, KY 42140
270-457-3618 They manufacture red and white oak flooring. We went with thier white oak and are very happy with it. Prices were good also.

Cary

 

[walleyed]

Saturday we got a lot of heavy rain. While working in the attic, we noticed a leak around the chimney flue. We don't yet have a chimney cap. Unfortunately, when the vinyl guys put vinyl around the chimney, they didn't erect anything to temporarily divert water or warn us about the need to cover the chimney. Before the vinyl was installed, water would just roll off the temporary osb that covered the chimney. After the vinyl was installed, the water was trapped by the vinyl around the osb and had to go down the chimney. So we put some plastic and boards over the chimney until the fireplace company installs the chimney cap. I'm not comfortable being up on that 8/12 pitch roof.

Things are looking good Obed. I hope the water didn't get to any drywall or damage anything else. I hear you on the 8/12 pitch, not much of a fan either.

 

[firefighter9208]

Chris,
One of the insulation companies who bid our job mentioned this technique. However, their estimate was double the next highest bidder so we didn't give them much consideration.
Obed

Gotcha! Ours was about the same price as the other companies that bid it. Good luck with all those screws. You'll be glad you did it when it's over.

Chris

 

[PAGUY]

Saturday we got a lot of heavy rain. While working in the attic, we noticed a leak around the chimney flue. We don't yet have a chimney cap. Unfortunately, when the vinyl guys put vinyl around the chimney, they didn't erect anything to temporarily divert water or warn us about the need to cover the chimney. Before the vinyl was installed, water would just roll off the temporary osb that covered the chimney. After the vinyl was installed, the water was trapped by the vinyl around the osb and had to go down the chimney. So we put some plastic and boards over the chimney until the fireplace company installs the chimney cap. I'm not comfortable being up on that 8/12 pitch roof.

Obed - I don't want to ruin your day but I think duct tape or a bungie cord around that chimney holding the plastic in place would be a better deal. Any strong wind is going to lift those boards off sailing them to the ground so at the very least don't have anything below them as they may even damage your shingles and god forbid if someone was standing down below when they fall. JMO - PAGUY

 

[Obed]

The outside stone work is done.

We really liked the stone mason so we have hired him to lay the stone on the fireplace in the living room. We used real stone on the outside. We will be using cultured (fake) stone for the LR fireplace. Real stone weighs significantly more than cultured stone. If we had used real stone, we would have needed to pour footers in the basement and laid a concrete block wall in the basement to support the stone in the living room. That's why we went with cultured stone in the LV fireplace; it was much simpler.

The stone mason did all the work himself; he didn't have any helpers. Several of our subcontractors (i.le. the owners) did not do much, if any, of the labor but had their hired hands do all the work. Quite a few of the subs we hired rarely were on site. We have noticed a correlation regarding how much the owner is on site and the quality of work and number of mistakes. The quality of the work on our job performed by the subcontractors who have become solely managers and salesman has been noticebly worse that the work of the subcontractors who actively work alongside their employees. This observation has not been universal; the vinyl subcontractor did not do any of the actual work but we were pleased with his company's work. But the vinyl subcontractor was the exception, not the rule.

 

[Obed]

Obed - I don't want to ruin your day but I think duct tape or a bungie cord around that chimney holding the plastic in place would be a better deal. Any strong wind is going to lift those boards off sailing them to the ground so at the very least don't have anything below them as they may even damage your shingles and god forbid if someone was standing down below when they fall. JMO - PAGUY

PAGUY,
The chimney cap got installed today so we're ok.

Obed

 

[Obed]

OBED

You may want to check out "Southern Kentucky Hardwood" for flooring, 111 Holland St
Gamaliel, KY 42140
270-457-3618 They manufacture red and white oak flooring. We went with thier white oak and are very happy with it. Prices were good also.

Cary

Cary, thanks for the lead. The wife called them. They don't have enough for our house and won't have more until November.
Obed

 

[Obed]

The brick guy no-showed today for the second time in a row. He even dropped by the house yesterday and told us that he would be here today to finish the brick at the back porch. It's especially frustrating because my wife is scheduling her days around his being here. Every day the brick guy no-shows is another day she can't make appointments to view the work of the remaining subs we need to hire. We want her to be here when this section of brick is laid so they don't make a mess that we have to clean up. The brick below this section has already been cleaned with muriatic acid.

 

[Obed]

Free Topsoil
Yesterday, my wife and I passed a place 15 miles away from us with a sign that says "Free Topsoil. You load it and haul it." We definitely need topsoil. I'm just trying to figure out if there is a way I can make use of the free topsoil or if I will just need to buy some and have it delivered. The trailer I carry my tractor on is 22 ft. long plus tongue length and has a 10,000 lb capacity. Is this "free topsoil" of any benefit to us?
Thanks,
Obed

 

[scoutcub]

Free Topsoil
Yesterday, my wife and I passed a place 15 miles away from us with a sign that says "Free Topsoil. You load it and haul it." We definitely need topsoil. I'm just trying to figure out if there is a way I can make use of the free topsoil or if I will just need to buy some and have it delivered. The trailer I carry my tractor on is 22 ft. long plus tongue length and has a 10,000 lb capacity. Is this "free topsoil" of any benefit to us?
Thanks,
Obed

Obed -

I think in your case it would work out to a time/$ issue. You could trailer your tractor there and either rent/borrow a dump truck/trailer or possibly load your trailer, but then how to unload your own trailer when you get it back home....and the cost of a rental, and the time to do it all.

Last month I got a load of topsoil for around the house, and will need much more. Got it from a local farmer, cost $110 for 5 yards, unscreened, delivered. Had some chunks in it, but overall nice stuff.

If you could rent/borrow a dump truck and spend a full day loading it yourself, it might be worthwhile.
Also check out the quality of the topsoil, screened/unscreened, rocks/weeds/building materials. etc.

 

[bake321]

Bummer. Before the recession they had 85 people working there. This is the backlash of what has happened to the building trade. Orders that do come up cant be met.

 

[Obed]

I am bound and determined to get the water away from this house. This is the area where I installed gutter downspout drain pipes Labor Day Weekend. This past weekend we got steady rain for much of the day Saturday. Today this area was still wet. I had not finished grading it so water just soaked in the red clay instead of running off of it. This evening I worked on making a path for the water to run away from the house. I had to stop when it got too dark to continue.

I couldn't get the FEL close enough to grade the area closest to the house. So I turned the tractor around and used the backhoe to drag dirt away from the house. I also used the backhoe to loosen some dirt that was very hard packed. Then I used the FEL to start grading away from the house.

 

[Obed]

HVAC Question
How far away from the house can we place the outside compressor for the H&A system?

Our H&A system will have a furnace inside the house and an air conditioning compressor unit outside. The outside unit will be installed beside the retaining wall in the picture. A refrigerant line will run from the house to the outside unit. If we put the outside unit too close to the house, the H&A guy said all the brick walls would likely make the unit very noisy. I was considering putting the unit against the retaining wall to the right of the downspout shown in the middle of the retaining wall. Unfortunately, that location will not even leave enough room between the AC unit's concrete pad and the basement porch to let a push mower get in that area. So now I'm considering installing the outside H&A unit against the retaining wall near the end of the retaining wall, about 24 feet from the house. Inside the house, the refrigerant line runs another 15 feet until it reaches the furnace.

Is there any problem with locating the outside H&A unit that far away from the house?

Obed

 

[Obed]

We are all set for the ceiling insulation that will be installed tomorrow. We are close to having the house ready for painting. All the walls have been wiped down and the floors have been swept twice using sweeping compound. There is still dust in the air. I'm hoping it will settle. We'll put down more sweeping compound. The wife is planning to look tomorrow at the work of one of the painting subs who gave us a bid.

 

[jcims]

HVAC Question
Is there any problem with locating the outside H&A unit that far away from the house?

Hopefully a pro will answer, but I don't see any issue with it. You're of course going to be eating additional costs for the electrical, refrigerant line and freon to charge the additional (not much) volume, but my lines are ~40' with the condenser located near the home (evap. coils are near the center of the house) and no issues.

You'll need the electrical disconnect to be mounted near the condenser (on the retaining wall presumably), and possibly one at the egress from the house. Either way, you'll need ensure you have the proper wire gauge to cover the additional distance. You're definitely going to want to protect the refrigerant lines as well...mowing missiles and weed whackers can do a number on them. I don't know if it's a good idea/code to run it all together, but i could see burying a 4" schedule 40 conduit with sweeps and running everything through that.

If it's going to be acting in any kind of heat pump capacity, you'll also want to consider how you're going to keep it clear of snow, including any drifts coming down from the retaining wall. I'd say keep it 2-3 feet off the wall, will also help reduce intake of air warmed by the retaining wall in the summer, and reduce the harshness of the reflected sound.

Probably goes without saying that you're going to want to complete your finish grade there before setting any pads for the condenser. I would avoid setting it on gravel, i've been in my house for three years and have to re-level the thing every spring. Prefab pads will keep it plumb and look better.