At Home In The Woods

[Obed]

With the house plans completed, in Sept. we asked 3 contractors for bids. Two of the contractors were licensed general contractors and one was a framer who will do more than just framing. The bids from the 2 general contractors made me fall off my seat. Their quotes would make the house cost about 40 - 50% more than what it could sell for when finished. There was no way we could do that. So my wife and I are now the general contractor. We hired the framer I mentioned above to do the framing and help us do some other stuff that we don't know how to do.

In late Sept., we marked the house and excavation began. We used dirt from the basement to raise the lowest part of the road. A lot of dirt went on this section of road. The approach to the house is much nicer now because it is not as steep.

 

[Obed]

With the basement excavation completed, the footers were dug on Nov. 3.

 

[Obed]

When I looked at the trenches for the footers, I observed that the footer trench did not extend underneath the garage doors. This was how our framing contractor had marked the lines, just as he had told me he would. However, when I saw the trench showing that there would be no footers underneath the garage doors, this approach began to worry me. The main floor will have a 2 car garage. There will also be a single car garage in the basement. The fact that there would not be a footer under the basement garage door really bothered me. I started imagining that the house could settle a couple inches on one side of the garage door more than the other side. I could almost see the cracks forming in the bricks on that wall. The next morning, I called the foundation guy to get his opinion. He said that for his house he poured the footers underneath the garage doors. While he said I probably wouldn't see cracks in the bricks, he said he wouldn't be surprised if the footers on each side of the garage door settled 1 or 2 inches differently. That didn't make me feel any better. The problem was, it was almost too late to dig the footers because concrete was scheduled to be poured that afternoon. The backhoe was already offsite.

I talked to my wife and she offered to use our tractor and extend the footer trenches to include the 3 garage doors while I stayed at work doing my computer job. A little later that morning, the wife called and said she was having trouble digging the trench. I decided to leave work, take a long lunch, and go out and dig the footers under the garage doors during my lunch break. When I got there, my pregant wife had finished digging 75% of the trench for the basement garage door footer. I helped her finish the basement trench, then went to the main floor garage and dug the trenches under the 2 remaining garage doors. The foundation workers dug the dirt out with shovels while I loosened the dirt and rock using my backhoe. As soon as the trenches were complete, I changed back into my office clothes and hurried back to work after a 3 hour lunch. It takes about 30 minutes to commute each way between the property and my job. The workers were able to lay the rebar before the concrete was poured that afternoon.

It was a stressful day but we got the footers underneath the garage doors and I'm extremely glad we did. Whether or not this step was really necessary, I don't know for sure. However, I believe I'll sleep a little better knowing we did it this way.

 

[Obed]

Not long after I left, the pump truck and concrete trucks arrived. It took 3 concrete trucks to fill the footers. The footers are 12 inches deep and 2 feet wide. The footers with the vertical rebar are for the two retaining walls.

 

[Obed]

We will be moving the camper and ourselves onto the property around the time that the basement and garage concrete slabs are poured. We had our excavator install the first 80 feet of camper septic line from the septic tank along the back side of the house to a cleanout. I installed the remaining 60 feet from the cleanout to the camper location.

To get the angles right, I laid out on the ground the pipe with 22.5 degree and 45 degree joints temporarilly attached in an orientation that caused the pipe to end at the camper location. There was no science or math involved, just trial and error. With the pipe on the ground, I painted the ground around the piping to mark where to dig.

In the first picture you can see where the subcontractor's septic line ends with a cleanout. Since my tractor backhoe has a small 9 inch bucket, my trench is much narrower and the excavator's trench.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Very nice progress. Glad you found someone to do the work for a reasonable price. I also think you did good by running the footers under. I tend to overbuild everything and while I know nothing about footers it seems reasonable to want to have them tied together on both sides of the opening.

Neat thread. Keep it going.

Chris

 

[Obed]

After digging the trench, I glued the subcontractor's cleanout to the piping. Just as I finished, my wife walked up and I proudly showed her my work. The first words out of her mouth were, "The cleanout is upside down." Suddenly, a nice even-keeled day of work became a drama. There wasn't much daylight left. We had to get this trench filled in because the next day the foundation contractor's trucks would need to cross this trench.

I immediately sent the wife to Lowe's to get a new cleanout. It would take her 45 minutes to get back. While she was gone, I started working on an unrelated task. It then dawned on me that I did not need a new cleanout. All I had to do was cut off the existing cleanout with about 3 inches of pipe still attached to each end, then re-attach the cleanout in the correct orientation using some pipe couplings that I had. By the time I realized this, my wife was almost back. So I cut off the cleanout, flipped it and re-attached it. I then hastilly glued the rest of the pipe in the trench and fine-tuned the pitch of the piping. I finished gluing the pipe just as it got dark. Unfortunately, my wife and I had to backfill the trench in the dark using a flashlight and tractor lights. Backfilling was more painful than you might think. Because of all the large rocks in our ground, you can't just dump the dirt in with the tractor. You have to make sure the large rocks aren't against the pipe or you could break the pipe as the dirt settles. Thus, I would dump some dirt in the trench and my wife would throw out the large rocks.

 

[dave1949]

Can't imagine why there would be no footer below the garage doors. People get funny ideas in their heads.

Hope your building 'drama' moments were few and far between in November There always seems to be a few.
Dave.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Great project. You're doing great with the updates.

I do have some concerns with the being your own general. Most of the time it's accepted that a general will only actually add a reasonable percentage to the cost because a lot of his compensation will come from savings his expertise will generate.

One of the things most people don't consider when they self general is the trades have to be controlled so that they don't make things more difficult for the other trades. Generals have more leverage in working with the trades because they are the source for work. Homeowners don't have that advantage.

You might find some problems getting good tradesmen working for you. That's because a lot of generals will not use them again if they find out they're working for homeowners generaling their own homes.

It will interesting to see how your final bill tallies up compared to the estimates. Forty to fifty percent above current home prices sounds about right in a lot of places right now. Contrary to popular opinion there isn't that much money in home building. Even though the real estate bubble burst building materials haven't went down that much. Neither has the cost of labor to get things done.

Be sure and keep a healthy percentage of your sub's money as retainage against the completion. That's to insure that a sub doesn't get his stuff done and end up costing you a lot more because he's messed it up for the other subs. Make it in his best interest to make the project move smoothly and in a timely manner.

I advise people getting bids to get three. If they're all in the same general area pricewise then you can assume that's the cost of doing business, even if it sounds outrageous to you. Get references and check them out. Look at their work. Low bids don't mean someone's willing to do the same work for less money necessarily. They might go in planning on making their money off of extras that you just assumed wouldn't be extras, novice general and all.

Good luck and keep on updating.

 

[EddieWalker]

Good job on the footing under the garage doors. I can't imagine why that wasn't done from the beginning. It's not that much more work, or even that much more money in concrete and rebar, but the advantages are pretty significant.

On the cleanout, I put in two. One going in each direction, right next to each other. While it's rare to need them, when you do, it's sure allot cheaper to have them there, then to have to remove the toilet or find some other way to get to what's in the line. With a kid on the way, anything is possible that might get flushed down the toilet. Hotwheel cars and small plastic animals are very common.

Harvey makes a good point about dealing with subs. Be sure to have a good understanding of what they do, and do not do. It's sad, but most will only do their own thing, and then that's it. They leave a mess, create problems and then just tell you that it's the other subs job to fix them. One of the worse that I've come across is those subs who cut out lumber to get their stuff in and then tell you that the framers are supposed to come back and fix it. The framers are paid and done with the job, so getting them back to fix what's been cut out isn't part of their job, but you, as the GC get to play the game of who fixes it. Another one that I've come across that really annoys me is the tape and bed guys who cover up outlets. I've had all sorts of issues with sheetrockers, but that's just un exusable. Trying to figure out why an outlet is dead with the electricians charging $60 an hour, knowing that they did everything right, and then finally figuring out that one of the outlets in the line is covered up and textured to blend in with the rest of the wall is just about as annoying as it gets.

Most of all, be very careful with upfront money. The sad truth about most guys in the trades is they have a vice of some kind. It's either drugs, drinking or gamebling. The gambelers are the worse. As soon as they get some money, they disapear until they are broke. Unfortunately, you'll never know what their vice is until you hire them and things start going wrong. Sometimes the other subs will clue you in, other times, they just badmouth each other because you didn't hire their buddy.

Expect to deal with children with massive egos. Never loan any money or tools. It would be very unusual if at least one of them didn't ask you for an advance of some kind because of some family emergancy, late bill, or just gas money. It happens so often that it's almost to be expected.

Know your code. Don't let anybody try to change your mind. If you want it done a certain way, then make sure they do it that way. Be willing to listen to why they say it should be their way, and take the time to check it out if you are unsure and it sounds good, but don't let them get away with trying to tell you that it's good enough or how they always do it. It's your home, your money and you are the one who has to live with it. When push comes to shove, the only thing you have going for you is money. Hold it back until you get what you hire them to do.

Most important, NEVER pay for anything until it's completely done. Never trust them to come back to finish or change something after you have paid them their final payment. While some will come back, it's not a priority for them anymore. Most of the time, they never show up. This is actually where I make allot of money. I get called to finish what others didn't. Unfortunatley, the homewner has to pay twice for the job.

Eddie

 

[Pops15]

It bothers me that your concrete guy expected the footings to settle any amount, let alone 1-2".
As for no footings under the garage doors...That was common practice here in northern IL until the late 70's. That doesn't mean it was a good practice. Its not necessarily a bad thing. I've seen plenty of garages done that way that never had any problems. I've also see a bunch that did have problems. One of the advantages to having the continuous foundation under the doors is it supports the garage floor itself.

Re: GC's...Like others have said, those two bids might not have been out of line.
Building is a tough business. Some GC's work out of a briefcase. Those guys are tough as nails when dealing with subs. They're very good with the financial aspect of the business but their jobs don't always run smoothly. Some GC's do a lot of work themselves. Their jobs usually run more smoothly with few surprises and delays. Being your own GC you won't be able to keep on top of things as well as a guy thats on the site working every day.

Be VERY careful with payouts. Your subs deserve to get paid in a timely manner for their work, but many will take advantage of you!
If you're buying the material be sure that its being delivered and used on your project! A local contractor was building apartments on a time and material basis for a doctor several years ago. The contractor/thief was charging enough material on every 5 or 6 buildings to build himself an one. The ensuing lawsuits and his bankruptcy involved 73 suppliers and sub contractors.

Subs: Resist the urge to go with the cheapest. INSIST on references. Follow up by checking those references. Not only check on the quality of their work, but their timeliness in completing their work. DO NOT put up with anyone that doesn't show up when they're supposed to! Same goes for subs that don't stay on your project. Do not put up with subs that don't clean up after themselves. Poor workmanship and delays will cost you money.
Find out EXACTLY what each sub has included in their bid. More importantly find out what isn't included, and even more importantly find out how long it will take each sub to complete their work. Get ALL contracts in writing. Contracts should include payout details. Keep changes to a minimum. Changes will cost you money. Keep in mind that when you make changes your project will likely take longer to complete.
Plumbers, mechanical guys, and electricians will go crazy cutting floor joists if YOU let them. Drywallers will cut up your wiring with their rotozips if YOU let let them. Concrete guys will cut corners if YOU let them. Since you're the GC EVERYTHING falls on YOU. Hiring subs that will do quality work in a reasonable time frame, scheduling subs at the right time, ordering materials, and scheduling inspections, taking care of payouts and waivers, etc.

Like Eddie. I've made some good money finishing or fixing things that others have done.
Pops

 

[Obed]

wroughtn_harv, thanks for the comments. That's very good insight. We are using the foundation guy, plumber and electrician recommended by our framer/construction manager. I'm happy with the foundation guy and his pricing. Let's hope the plumber and electrician work out similarly.

Obed.

 

[Obed]

Know your code. Don't let anybody try to change your mind. If you want it done a certain way, then make sure they do it that way. Be willing to listen to why they say it should be their way, and take the time to check it out if you are unsure and it sounds good, but don't let them get away with trying to tell you that it's good enough or how they always do it. It's your home, your money and you are the one who has to live with it. When push comes to shove, the only thing you have going for you is money. Hold it back until you get what you hire them to do.

Eddie

Eddie, thanks for the great comments. We bought an International Residential Code 2003 book from E-bay. That's the code used by our county. I already brought out the code once when there was an issue I didn't like. Fortunately, we discussed the issue before the work was done. I ask alot of questions about HOW things will be done, what materials etc. I've run into some defensiveness with the construction manager/framer when I've asked "how" questions. I believed we've worked through that. I made it clear that I would ask questions about how things would be done and that he needed to be open to such discussions. I would rather find out before the work is started that I'd like it done a different way rather than get put in the position of asking someone to re-do the work.

Regarding the code, the subs REALLY don't like it when the code is brought up when they are suggesting to do something that doesn't meet code; I guess because it makes them look bad. I'm trying to be a little more diplomatic and just tell them how I want something done rather than bring up the code. However, we do have the code as something to fall back on if needed. If a sub plain refuses to go by the code when we ask them, that'd be reason to find another sub.

We are trying to find a balance as to how picky to be. We are already very particular by our natures. Yes, it's our house and we are paying for things. However, I need to keep a decent enough relationship with the workers so that the project gets done. I don't want someone getting mad and shoving something down the septic line. I'm trying to learn how to balance this one.

When we put out bids for the road building project, we chose the contractor who seemed most willing to build the road the way we wanted it built. One of the contractors basically told us how he builds roads and we could do it his way, take it or leave it. He didn't get the job. Now that the road job is done, I'm very happy with it. Everytime I drive on it I think, "Wow, what a great road."

Obed

 

[easygo]

Great thread Obed!

I have nothing to contribute regarding the code.
However. I'd like to say this.
The two greatest challenges that I have encountered so far in my life are renovating an 1836 framhouse and the other is the first 8 months of my son's life. The house is VERY far from done as it has been on hold since my son was born. My son is now two and a half years old.
But it seems you are tackling both of these at the same time. If you get through the next year or so, I think nothing will seem like a real challenge anymore.
Congratulations and please keep the thread going.

 

[shane]

Sounds like Eddie and Harv work in my neighborhood. Both gave excellent advice.

A couple more:

Insurance. You need to make sure all the subs you hire have workman's comp and liability. Ask for certificates. If they don't, send them on their way. If they neglect either and there is a major problem (ie. employee falls and breaks back, or burn your house down with work light) your dream house could become your worst nightmare. There are ooodles of real cases just like this.

Code. While it is a good starting point and guide, it's the minimum. Example, maybe the way the framer wanted to do your footer is code, I sure like your way better.

I am enjoying your project progress. I hope you keep us updated. And, you threw in a real curve ball with the baby. Congratulations!

 

[jayste]

Obed, great thread and congratulations on the youngun'! Wow! GC for the first time, pregnant wife, winter coming on, living in the RV....Aaaahhhhh! But just think, you have all of us here at TBN for support! Kind of like Wilson was for Tim Taylor!

Jay

 

[Pops15]

Eddie, thanks for the great comments. We bought an International Residential Code 2003 book from E-bay. That's the code used by our county. I already brought out the code once when there was an issue I didn't like. Fortunately, we discussed the issue before the work was done. I ask alot of questions about HOW things will be done, what materials etc. I've run into some defensiveness with the construction manager/framer when I've asked "how" questions. I believed we've worked through that. I made it clear that I would ask questions about how things would be done and that he needed to be open to such discussions. I would rather find out before the work is started that I'd like it done a different way rather than get put in the position of asking someone to re-do the work.

Regarding the code, the subs REALLY don't like it when the code is brought up when they are suggesting to do something that doesn't meet code; I guess because it makes them look bad. I'm trying to be a little more diplomatic and just tell them how I want something done rather than bring up the code. However, we do have the code as something to fall back on if needed. If a sub plain refuses to go by the code when we ask them, that'd be reason to find another sub.

We are trying to find a balance as to how picky to be. We are already very particular by our natures. Yes, it's our house and we are paying for things. However, I need to keep a decent enough relationship with the workers so that the project gets done. I don't want someone getting mad and shoving something down the septic line. I'm trying to learn how to balance this one.

When we put out bids for the road building project, we chose the contractor who seemed most willing to build the road the way we wanted it built. One of the contractors basically told us how he builds roads and we could do it his way, take it or leave it. He didn't get the job. Now that the road job is done, I'm very happy with it. Everytime I drive on it I think, "Wow, what a great road."

Obed

Those are two red flags! Your framer should be willing to explain why he does things a certain way. Even more disturbing is your subs suggesting to do things that don't meet code.

 

[Pops15]

Sounds like Eddie and Harv work in my neighborhood. Both gave excellent advice.

A couple more:

Insurance. You need to make sure all the subs you hire have workman's comp and liability. Ask for certificates. If they don't, send them on their way. If they neglect either and there is a major problem (ie. employee falls and breaks back, or burn your house down with work light) your dream house could become your worst nightmare. There are ooodles of real cases just like this.

Code. While it is a good starting point and guide, it's the minimum. Example, maybe the way the framer wanted to do your footer is code, I sure like your way better.

I am enjoying your project progress. I hope you keep us updated. And, you threw in a real curve ball with the baby. Congratulations!

More good advice. Every contractor in the county where I live and work is required to have insurance, license and bond. Subs don't work for me until I have their certificate of insurance on file.
Pops

 

[TBDonnelly]

What an interesting story. It reads like a book. Speaking of book, how about a title?

Something like: Planting our feet on Terra Firma, The Obed Story.

Thanks for taking me/us along for the ride.

Don

 

[TheGoose]

Thanks for the water well posts, I used to be in that business. Just curious on why you had to use steel casing? All our wells here in SE Texas use PVC, but I assume it has something to do with the type of ground.

I would beg to differ with the previous poster who said that building materials are not that much cheaper. I paid over $7/sheet for 4x8 sheetrock on a remodel job I did in '07. Last week I bought several 4x8 sheets for just over $4/sheet. That's a pretty steep cut, especially if you're buying several hundred sheets. Also I found lumber, wire, etc. to be much cheaper but the sheetrock really stood out.

Keep the pics coming.